FTD vs. ProFlowers

[Dazeal]

Charlie I was too harsh on you and shouldn't got crazy like I did pointing fingers at you. I actually agree with most of the last long post you wrote Charlie. And yes, I am too D*** stupid.

YOU derisively turned your back on a perfect opportunity to take a free BIG SHOT at Pro Flowers in your area.

My product speaks for itself, your product is the same stuff PF is selling, so, yes I see why you would want to take advantage. Evolve and you won't have to have that fear. That isn’t supposed to be a blow at all. My niche, for now, doesn't buy from PF, so I don't really care. I understand better now from where you are coming from. When you preached about how to fix the industry, that doesn't work for where I live.

And if you're questioning my integrity . . . as it sounds like you're doing in your somewhat irrational diatribe . . . we may get the opportunity to meet someday. And we'll definitely be talking about that then.

Is that a threat? You crack me up man. Drop the testosterone and get real. You are really going to fight me? *laughs* When I spoke about integrity and Hypocrisy, I was talking about the industry, not you.

I am starting to understand the frustration I feel with florists like you and some here on the forum. Neither of us is right or wrong. You see flowers as a commodity to get out the door, I see it as an art to get out the door. Once I can understand that, I'll be able to understand where you are coming from. And don't even try to argue with me on this, because your cookie cutter arrangements are on 15,000 other websites and grocery store coolers. Evolve.

Ya know....Nah...never mind.....maybe Charlie's right, maybe you don’t get it...things like this have to happen in a planned, methodical order....

Yeah Mark, I'm not too big on the whole politically correct thing because I have nothing to lose I guess. I understand too well, but I agree, I am too harsh on you big guys. Business is business is business. I understand well and don’t have the right to judge as bad as I do... sorry about that guys.. I get too involved.. I'll chill.

I wouldn't care one way or the other. But I think that if you did it, you'd probably find that you'd destroyed any chance you had of achieving your "objective" after all those florists had considered the source.

Considered the source because I said Butterfieldblooms.com doesn't ship direct? Yeah, ok. You're right Charlie, BFB ships all there stuff from the grower. *sigh* Notice when you question my integrity, like you have since I've was on the floristboard, I don't act like I'm in JH and want to fight.

 

[parie]

i'm going to weigh in...

but oh so delicately and basically just address some quotes out the motley fool article...

FTD claims that ProFlowers is misleading its customers. It points to the company's refrigerated warehouse in Miami, third-party warehousing arrangements, and the practice of warehousing inventory in anticipation of peak holiday periods.

Provide Commerce isn't about to deny the existence of warehouses. Its SEC filings have always mentioned that a fifth of the company's orders -- no doubt, mostly the exotic flowers shipped in from Latin America -- are fulfilled through the company's Miami warehouse.

who's kidding who here? are they trying to make us believe that only 1/5 of their product comes out of latin america, and that the remainder is from ? where?

The ProFlowers.com website goes into great detail explaining the cumbersome five-step process through which traditional florists deliver flowers eight to 12 days after they have been cut. From the grower to the importer to the warehouse to the local florist to the eventual customer,

Here in lies a problem that we have probably all tried to remedy in some manner, and that is to cut the time out of delivery to our customers doors through buying direct. This coupled with MY local wholesalers selection of product was the impetus to begin buying as much as possible direct starting 10 years ago. BUt the bigger problem here is INITIAL QUALITY of the flowers purchased. I did a test order on Pro flowers in May, what a joke, if that is considered "the best quality", then I am getting out of this business.
When oh when, did the floral industry decide that what lasts longer is better? I've always had a problem with the whole concept of most of the industry's stand on this issue.
What about promoting flowers as a "thing of fleeting beauty"? If the industry would spend more time promoting that aspect of flowers instead of the longevity factor, ProFlowers would DEFINITELY not have a business model on which to slam traditional florists. And maybe more importantly, who cares if there is a 8-12 day lag time, what we florists can do that a consumer cannot is process the flowers properly insuring a longer lasting flower than they can. See http://www.chainoflifenetwork.net/

and my last point...

However, if FTD is aiming to educate the market -- and if ProFlowers' product turns out to be better -- FTD had better hope that it doesn't get what it bargained for.

I see this last sentence in the article as a challenge to every FTD/TF/800 Florist. Ultimately you/we have the power in our hands to show that no way, no how is ProFlowers better than what a traditional florist can offer.

With that being said, let me clarify a few things. I have been in this business now for 19 years, still a newbie compared to most of you. I have NEVER been a member of FTD or TF and 98% of my business has always been locally based, here as well as when I owned a shop in Seattle. So although I can't speak as a FTD/TF florist I can speak to the REAL FLORIST issue.
Enough said.

 

[Paul]

Parie

Thank you for mentioning the marketing of flowers as a thing "of fleeting beauty". Tommy Bright sold this idea at conventions 50 years ago and I loved it then and I love it now. I often tell my customers who are enquiring "how long will it last?" that it will certainly outlast that prime rib they are also placing on the table.

If FTD wanted to spend some money on a lawsuit to "help" us florists, how about going after the deception that is the cornerstone of the internet? A consumer has the right to an assurance that "Mytown Flowers" is actually located in "Mytown". Oh! I think I know the answer to that question. And I think the issue is far more important than whether Pedro trots out to the fields to pick an order faster than the Mercury Man.

 

[hcflorist]

I'm gong to try this one more time and try to keep it simple.

1. I totally agree that the FTD/Pro Flowers flap is a likely a situatiion of the pot calling the kettle black. FTD is probably guilty of as much or more crap than Pro Flowers ever dreamed of. But all of that is totally irrelevant to the point I was trying to get across and to the opportunity that was created by them that existed for ALL florists whether they were FTD lovers or FTD haters or FTD members or FTD non-members.

2. I've NEVER advocated JOINING with FTD on this. I suggested that this was a great opportunity for everyone, whether they're FTD or not, to USE FTD to advance a worthy cause, gain some free publicity for their own operation, and, hopefully, accomplish something good for EVERY RETAIL FLORIST in their own market, and, hopefully, in America. And you could do this at little or no cost whether you were FTD or not.

But you guys would rather spend your time arguing the obvious old arguments that have already been argued at least 10,000,000 times by everyone in the land. And it looks like every one of you thinks that you're saying something ORIGINAL.

Somebody even made the assinine comment that this was just a publicity stunt for FTD. Even if that were true, I could care less what FTD's motives are. Poiint is, 30,000 mad florists could quite easily have taken the potential momentum of this away from both FTD and Pro Flowers and turned it into a HUGE PUBLICITY EVENT for the entire nationwide retail florist industry. But that obviously isn't going to happen. Because, exactly as I predicted, 29,996 or so out of 30,000 were and ARE either too lazy or too dumb to recognize and use an opportunity when it hits them in the face.

Watching the reaction from you guys on this issue has been kind of like watching a RERUN of the 1975 Super Bowl or something equally as boring OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER again.

So I've gone back to running my operation and given up on getting this industry to come together on anything. After this, I kinda think this industry probably DESERVES to be taken over by the Big Boys. And that's just exactly what's rapidly happening, whether you like to admit it or not.

 

[CHR]

And I think the issue is far more important than whether Pedro trots out to the fields to pick an order faster than the Mercury Man.

Best one-liner of the day. Thanks for the laugh.

Hcflorist, don't give up. IMO, you are right. How about those sample letters? Please?

 

[hcflorist]

Charlie I was too harsh on you and shouldn't got crazy like I did pointing fingers at you. I actually agree with most of the last long post you wrote Charlie. And yes, I am too D*** stupid.

Agreed . . . at least for the moment cause I'm still ticked.

My product speaks for itself, your product is the same stuff PF is selling, so, yes I see why you would want to take advantage. Evolve and you won't have to have that fear. That isn’t supposed to be a blow at all. My niche, for now, doesn't buy from PF, so I don't really care. I understand better now from where you are coming from. When you preached about how to fix the industry, that doesn't work for where I live.

I met the Pro AND the FTD dropship campaigns headon. That's true. And it was a very successful move, particularly to the young university crowd in our town.

But our business was built on and continues to thrive on the carriage trade. But that's only one niche of the market. I've seen other shops come and go who had their noses stuck up in the air and restricted themselves to the carriage trade. They seemed to feel that it would hurt their ability to serve the carriage trade to even talk to any low end customer. Funny thing was, though, by the time they found out they weren't going to make it on carriage trade alone, they'd already alienated the rest of the market.

Different things work for different markets. I've done nothing I feel I have to defend. I try different things all the time. Some work and some don't.

Is that a threat? You crack me up man. Drop the testosterone and get real. You are really going to fight me? *laughs* When I spoke about integrity and Hypocrisy, I was talking about the industry, not you.

You'd better go back and read your own creation. The paragraph and everything in it was addressed specifically to me. I accepted it as such and I fully stand behind what I said in reply. When you recklessly run your mouth, or your keyboard, you need to be ready to accept the consequences. Like I said, if and when we ever meet, this WILL be discussed. Then, if you actually said something you didn't mean to say, you can apologize like a man.

I am starting to understand the frustration I feel with florists like you and some here on the forum. Neither of us is right or wrong. You see flowers as a commodity to get out the door, I see it as an art to get out the door. Once I can understand that, I'll be able to understand where you are coming from. And don't even try to argue with me on this, because your cookie cutter arrangements are on 15,000 other websites and grocery store coolers. Evolve.

Got no argument with most of this paragraph. But I did EVOLVE. Started off like you. Found out that "art" didn't pay the bills as well as "business".

As far as the cookie cutter arrangement images, the argument over whether or not to use them is really old. Personally, I stand with the crowd that believes them to be better done than most and, essentially, free. They work for me. Besides, my website is only a PORTION of my business.

Yeah Mark, I'm not too big on the whole politically correct thing because I have nothing to lose I guess. I understand too well, but I agree, I am too harsh on you big guys. Business is business is business. I understand well and don’t have the right to judge as bad as I do... sorry about that guys.. I get too involved.. I'll chill.

You have EVERYTHING to lose. You just haven't figured it out yet.

Considered the source because I said Butterfieldblooms.com doesn't ship direct? Yeah, ok. You're right Charlie, BFB ships all there stuff from the grower. *sigh* Notice when you question my integrity, like you have since I've was on the floristboard, I don't act like I'm in JH and want to fight.

BB wasn't an issue in that post. So don't bring it up after the fact. And I didn't question your integrity. Matter of fact, I wasn't the one using the word "integrity". I believe you were. But if I was questioning your integrity, you can bet that I'd be willing to back it up and wouldn't try to say I was doing something else if and when you "called" me on it.

The point I was making is that you might be wasting your time to try to re-educate all of the FTD florists. I don't think they'd respect you enough to give your opinion a lot of credibility, especially if they'd seen some of your posts.

I guess you come from a protected environment where you haven't had to be accountable for your loose lips. Maybe you should stay in that envronment. Cause if you get out in the real world, when you openly question someone's integrity or honor, those loose lips are likely to get mashed a time or two. And hiding behind a computer and thousands of miles of telephone line just may not prevent that from happening forever. You never know where you might run into someone you've taken one of those cheap shots at.

 

[Dazeal]

You'd better go back and read your own creation. The paragraph and everything in it was addressed specifically to me. I accepted it as such and I fully stand behind what I said in reply. When you recklessly run your mouth, or your keyboard, you need to be ready to accept the consequences. Like I said, if and when we ever meet, this WILL be discussed. Then, if you actually said something you didn't mean to say, you can apologize like a man.

You talk out both sides of your mouth and run your mouth here like you're on some type of high horse. Any blind person can see from one posts from what you say on this thread and others in the past that you float like the wind. I can't wait to meet, so I can give you that apology.

I guess you come from a protected environment where you haven't had to be accountable for your loose lips. Maybe you should stay in that environment. Cause if you get out in the real world, when you openly question someone's integrity or honor, those loose lips are likely to get mashed a time or two. And hiding behind a computer and thousands of miles of telephone line just may not prevent that from happening forever. You never know where you might run into someone you've taken one of those cheap shots at.

Charlie, from the beginning you have be-littled me. That's not only my opinion but a few others I've spoken to. You were the first to attack me on the thread for the record. Can't wait to meet so you can teach me a lesson.

 

[Dazeal]

Furthermore Charlie, if you equate me running my mouth, because I stick up for myself, you need to rethink your position. Most of the time when you and I get into it, is because of your replies to something I post. I’m not sure why you have something against me, but when I fight back; don’t even try to twist it around. 95% of my post are helpful here, it seems like a lot of your posts are negative. When a florist here needs help with something like ribbon, I try. You seem to only pop in when it benefits you OR when you can teach us a thing or two.

Before you start threatening others on this board, take some advice you gave me once… get some thicker skin. As I said before you know a lot about this biz, but that doesn’t give you right to act so pompous. Why don’t you call me on my direct cell phone, and we can communicate without these poor people listening to how immature we can be. 541.326.5837

 

[hcflorist]

You talk out both sides of your mouth and run your mouth here like you're on some type of high horse. Any blind person can see from one posts from what you say on this thread and others in the past that you float like the wind. I can't wait to meet, so I can give you that apology.

If you've got any examples to prove your "point", I'd be happy to address them. If you're correct, I'll say so. If not, I'll say that, too.

Charlie, from the beginning you have be-littled me. That's not only my opinion but a few others I've spoken to. You were the first to attack me on the thread for the record. Can't wait to meet so you can teach me a lesson.

I think that any "belittling" that I've done was more than asked for. If not, I apologize. I do try not to use that tactic in debates but every once in a while (some might say more often than that) I don't think out my posts as well as I perhaps should..

Correct me if I'm wrong . . . but I believe it was YOU who attacked ME first in THIS thread. Matter of fact, I don't just believe that. I know it. Seems to me that you just go completely beserk every time you see a post from me because of something that you claim once happened on the other board. You even brought that up again here. GROW UP AND GET OVER IT ! ! !

You just don't seem to be mature enough to accept the fact that actions and words can have consequences and require accountability. I will hold you accountable every time you misquote me or attack me. If you haven't figured that out from the past little reckless escapades where you and I have "locked horns" . . . all I can say is you're a very slow learner.

And, like I said before, if you didn't mean to say what you obviously said in the paragraph that I perceived as an attack, say so. But don't deny that you said it when it's there in print.

If you did mean to say it, at least be man enough to stand behind it. I could at least respect that more than I do this adolescent "hurt feelings" BS of yours.

 

[Dazeal]

*laughs* Hey if you missed the other post up top, call me if you want to settle this. You sure do talk the talk here on the forums. Can't wait to meet, so I can be taught a lesson.

PS- I'm not going to take up any more space here or the time of other florists who want to move past this... I'm going to take this to PMs. Sorry folks.

 

[hcflorist]

*laughs* Hey if you missed the other post up top, call me if you want to settle this. You sure do talk the talk here on the forums. Can't wait to meet, so I can be taught a lesson.

PS- I'm not going to take up any more space here or the time of other florists who want to move past this... I'm going to take this to PMs. Sorry folks.

You CHOSE the forum and took it PUBLIC when YOU first attacked ME on this board. What did you expect? As I said, words and actions have consequences and require accountability. You could have taken care of your original personal attack via the PM's or PHONE that you're trying to hide behind now. Why didn't you?

What's to settle? I've made my stand and indicated I'm willing to back up everything I've said and stand behind it . . . unlike you. Seems to me that pretty well settled it.

 

[Griff]

Aside from all the personal rhetoric...

and back on the subject of the "law suit", just a couple of additional comments.

Now I'm just a small town guy with a small town flower shop and I DON'T have a law degree, however, this suit really comes down to two points. Proflowers has built their the whole sales concept on THEIR flowers are shipped DIRECT from the grower and therefore are going to be several days fresher than tradional means of distribution such as florists. THEY emphasize strongly that THEY <Proflowers> are the FRESHEST. Grocery stores have always referred to their produce as fresh or the freshest possible so as to not have one of their competitors sue them for IMPLYING that they don't have the freshest. When the facts are actually examained that PF flowers go from grower to the importer <even if they are the importer> to a "packing room" NOT a DESIGN room, to have the flowers unpacked and then repacked again in small mixed boxes and then shipped by truck again to regional third party holding areas for final shipping by another independent party as versus to what they refer to our "flawed" system you will find that both are very similiar. Their regional shipping centers proves that THEIR orders are not shipped DIRECTLY from the grower to consumer, they have always been able to imply their prices are result of that direct relationship and they <proflowers> content THEY are the freshest and yet use our "flawed" sytem - their terms - to provide same day delivery. Can't have it both ways! Unless the FTD lawyers are deaf, dumb and blind, this should be a no brainer to show either disception or fraud. If you look at the other divisions of Provide, their sales pitch is always the consumer is dealing DIRECT - direct with Provide, but not direct with anyone else.

Will this all make a difference in our market place. Probably not. It is unlikely the PF will lose any of their customers because of this disception? Probably not. If you run into any PF customers, ask them why they buy from them and I'll bet you $10 it isn't because they think the flowers are directly from the farm. It is the price - it is always going to be the price!

As HCFlorist says, we can compete against these guys. It just depends on how long you want to wait to get you head out of the sand before you do.