Just one example of what is wrong with our industry

[duanermb]

With less than 1/2 of 1% failure rate I'd say it's far from not working Duane.

You just hear about the (few) bad ones.

Thousands and thousands of orders are transmitted daily thru 800TFTD's systems.

One of the big YP advertisers I've been told does 2000 orders a day, and that's just one of them.

Total guess but I imagine there's at least 10,000 orders a day - that don't fail.

If *they* were half, hell 10% as bad as espoused up in here that business would never still be flying.

sorry....reality knocks

To sum up this lengthy banter:

1. There is nothing wrong with the industry except that OGs are taking too much of the money, and many florists can't seem to fill, so every time that you wire, it's a crap shoot.

2. If you can deal with the BS part of the wire business, you may be able to succeed, if you have the resources and volume to deal with it.

3. This wasn't really worth discussing at all, now was it.

End of thread.

 

[bloomz]

Sorry to disagree with your synopsis Duane but are you gonna try to end it on a note of baloney?

It's no crap shoot when I send an order.

 

[goldfish]

If no was said to specific arrangements - OG's would stop selling them - period.

That's not true. Since we don't carry alstros and daisies, we can't fill many of popular FTD cookies. But FTD.com keeps sending them to us anyway. Quite annoying, especially because we have to pay $1.50 for each of these orders we reject. FTD.com orders can't be forwarded.

 

[goldfish]

As I understand the way the WS works, if you, the filling florist, reject an order transmitted to you, you, the filling florist, will pay a fee for the rejection. That reject will cost you money does it not?

No, you don't pay for rejection itself. You pay for each incoming order, even if you reject it. See the difference?

The only way you can avoid this fee, if you don't want to fill, is to forward it to someone else.

 

[LJVF]

That's not true. Since we don't carry alstros and daisies, we can't fill many of popular FTD cookies. But FTD.com keeps sending them to us anyway. Quite annoying, especially because we have to pay $1.50 for each of these orders we reject. FTD.com orders can't be forwarded.

Actually you are charged the $1.50 regardless if you REJect or FORward the order. The $1.50 is charged to acquire the order regardless of what you do with it beyond that.

If you reject a good number of FTD.com orders, it may make sense to have them take you off their sending list completely.

A bit of history on that ridiculous $1.50 charge. Back in the day, members were required to pick up the relay fee when sending an order out. There were various transmissions speeds that ranged from immediate transmission to a day or two. They were represented by codes E for economy, N for normal, Z for (fast...I think), X for (immediate...I think) and A would have FTD determine the appropriate transmission speed. I can't remember what the relay fees were, I think they ranged from .35 to 1.00.

Then FTD invented FTO. FTO was created for florists who wanted more wire in's. As a way to entice senders to send to them, florists had the choice to pick up the tab on the relay fee by offering FTO. I remember when searching for a florist to wire an order to, I always tried to look for one that had the FTO symbol in their listing. (side story, in order to carry the FTO symbol, a florist had to have a toll free phone number).

Once 1-800-Send-FTD was created, FTD decided to make all orders FTO. At the time the member florists didn't really know why, but now it is clear as day, it became another revenue stream for 800-SEND-FTD and even more so for FTD.com.

This history lesson may not be completely accurate, but you get the jist of the story.

 

[goldfish]

1800 keeps calling when we refuse orders during a very busy holiday because we can't fill them (either not enough money or don't have the product) Yet they continue to call us 4 or 5 more times? It can't get much more clear than "I'm sorry, we cannot fill this order". Yet somehow, they still try sending it over and over again.

I think they (1800) probably don't have a system I was talking about.

Even if you "told" them you can't fill certain arrangements, if their computer system doesn't have an entry like "no send", you will still get a wire or call for that arrangement.

What I was proposing is that OGs should have a database of each florist combined with another database of what each florist can and can't fill.

No OGs have that kind of database yet, so they keep sending things we can't fill or stop sending orders altogether. This is very inefficient for both OGs and fillers.

 

[goldfish]

Actually you are charged the $1.50 regardless if you REJect or FORward the order. The $1.50 is charged to acquire the order regardless of what you do with it beyond that.

I may be mistaken, but my understanding is that $1.50 is waived if we forward it. The florist who received the forwarded order will then have to pay the $1.50. Otherwise, if an order was forwarded say 5 times, FTD would earn $7.50!? That doesn't seem right (not that I believe right/wrong is a good criteria to judge what FTD does).

Does anyone know the true answer?

Anyway, I agree reject won't cancel the FTO. That's what pisses me off.

 

[Dazeal]

Our industry is broken. Our industry's credibility and accountability is shameful.

Something has to give.

I'll try my best.

 

[bloomz]

Actually you are charged the $1.50 regardless if you REJect or FORward the order. The $1.50 is charged to acquire the order regardless of what you do with it beyond that.
.

A few months ago when we debated this I called and was told if you FOR there is no more FTO fee.

Could have changed but that's what they told me then.

 

[LJVF]

A few months ago when we debated this I called and was told if you FOR there is no more FTO fee.

Could have changed but that's what they told me then.

You and goldie are right, I stand corrected.

 

[Dazeal]

I don't WANT to spread reputation around before I give more to bloomz! /pouts

Ok this is what I was going to write JB..

(green dot) Have my babies? - daz

 

[duanermb]

(Perhaps Bloomz has figured it out, but most of us don't send enough to create that list)

Sorry to disagree with your synopsis Duane but are you gonna try to end it on a note of baloney?

It's no crap shoot when I send an order.

I gave you that one JB. :grovel:

I was talking about everyone else who doesn't have enough orders outgoing or the time to create a preferred senders list.

But thinking further, perhaps the florist was good in 2008, made the list and now is hurting and isn't so good any more.

Just thinking.

 

[prestonway]

That's not true. Since we don't carry alstros and daisies, we can't fill many of popular FTD cookies. But FTD.com keeps sending them to us anyway. Quite annoying, especially because we have to pay $1.50 for each of these orders we reject. FTD.com orders can't be forwarded.

So why don't you carry these basic, every day flowers that your customer wants to purchase?

lol

 

[bloomz]

That does surprise me a bit too given that Goldie is deep into figuring out what people want....

 

[Doug Munro]

To sum up this lengthy banter:

1. There is nothing wrong with the industry except that OGs are taking too much of the money, and many florists can't seem to fill, so every time that you wire, it's a crap shoot.

2. If you can deal with the BS part of the wire business, you may be able to succeed, if you have the resources and volume to deal with it.

3. This wasn't really worth discussing at all, now was it.

End of thread.

Duanne,

Very simplistic view of a complicated series if issues

Let me give you my views on all three of you points

1) I have been in this industry a lot longer than you so I can recall the time when the term OG did not exist. 30 years ago the average florist was complaining bitterly that they were not getting enough to fill incoming orders and some were underfilling to make up what they felt they were entitled to.

2) The BS part of the wire business as you call it is entirely a matter of perception on the part of an individual owner. It is not a universally accepted concept that the wire services are full of BS. In fact many retail flower shops consider the wire services a valuable part of their business.

The reality is that whether you like it or not the wire services are probably one of the few entities in today's world that keep the retail florist industry as a whole moving in any semblance of a common direction.

The average shop that belongs to a wire service at the very least has access to selection guides, in store marketing material, mailing pieces,etc. Most of this would not be possible for a stand alone shop to create on their own.

Yes there are great industry organizations like SAF that provide some marketing material, however in my travels to flower shops I very seldom see SAF material on display

3)I take it that this signals that you feel you have made your point and will now stick your head in the sand?

 

[lori042499]

Example of poor CS at 800-flowers...

I get an order for the summer dunes today....I have no bear grass, no shells and pink larkspur instead of purple...in my opinion without the shells and grass the arrangement loses its integrity, but I give 800 flowers the opportunity to let me know if this sub is OK.. 2 hours later they are still sitting on this having not made a decision, probably bcause they now cannot get intouch with the customer and cannot make a decision on their own because they don't even know what I am talking about...I have now rejected it because at this point I know it will be a problem and I want no part of it...am I wrong or are they...This would have been a different scenario if I was called direct, they would have know what I could or could not provide before heading off to work and it would be sitting waiting to be delivered now..instead it is bouncing around cyberspace waiting for 800-flowers to get a clue....

 

[CHR]

Similar story here as yours Lori, but from the consumer side.

She is really PO'd and I don't blame her. Before anyone goes off about blaming the local florists, read that the CSR told her 3 local stores had refused the order, that 1-800 knew ahead of the delivery date and just simply dropped the ball.

Sounds like the customer ordered the Plum Crazy. Perhaps the shops were not BMT and the orders were all sent via TF & Dove. Perhaps the shops were too far away to want to take a low-priced order.

At any rate, I bet the stores had subbed in the past and then had not been paid.

This customer could certainly have had flowers delivered, just not the exact item. Communication could have solved it all by telling her what a local florist could do in a timely fashion and then asking her if it's OK.) But they simply don't have the margins (or the communcations system) for that type of real customer service.

Instead, they just drop-shipped an entirely different DIY item.

Perfect example of the dysfunctional nature of 'national' sending.

 

[goldfish]

So why don't you carry these basic, every day flowers that your customer wants to purchase?

Because it would not help us as much as having other more unusual flowers would, at this point.

Let's say 90% of flower buyers go for common flowers such as alstros and daisies. If you are one of the 30 average shops carrying these flowers, you capture only 3% of flower buyers (=90/3).

Let's say 10% of flower buyers seek more unusual flowers, the kind that you don't see in mass markets. If you are the only one out of 30 average florists in town who carries unusual flowers, you capture 10% of flower buyers.

10% > 3%, isn't it?

I'm over-simplifying the logic, but I hope you get my point. I can go further, however.

As your shop grows in market share, the math will change. For example, once you becomes a dominant shop in town, it may not be wise to avoid common flowers. Because these are the flowers most people go for and you already have a large share to capture the bulk of these people.

We started out very small, probably the smallest in town. I think we are now #2 or #3 in revenue. It's time for us to increase our inventory of more "common" flowers. The question is how we can do it without destroying our brand, i.e., the shop that has unusual flowers. But we will try. I have some idea.

 

[Kristine]

Similar story here as yours Lori, but from the consumer side.

She is really PO'd and I don't blame her. Before anyone goes off about blaming the local florists, read that the CSR told her 3 local stores had refused the order, that 1-800 knew ahead of the delivery date and just simply dropped the ball.

Sounds like the customer ordered the Plum Crazy. Perhaps the shops were not BMT and the orders were all sent via TF & Dove. Perhaps the shops were too far away to want to take a low-priced order.

At any rate, I bet the stores had subbed in the past and then had not been paid.

This customer could certainly have had flowers delivered, just not the exact item. Communication could have solved it all by telling her what a local florist could do in a timely fashion and then asking her if it's OK.) But they simply don't have the margins (or the communications system) for that type of real customer service.

Instead, they just drop-shipped an entirely different DIY item.

Perfect example of the dysfunctional nature of 'national' sending.

I don't get the dysfunction of this consumer either. Her quote "I know of two within my Mom’s own community" HONEY GET ON THE PHONE AND CALL THEM (a local florist) DIRECT!!!!

oh what's the point???

 

[bloomz]

I don't get the dysfunction of this consumer either. Her quote "I know of two within my Mom’s own community" HONEY GET ON THE PHONE AND CALL THEM (a local florist) DIRECT!!!!

oh what's the point???

Consumers think that the big companies can get stuff done that local florists can't for some wacky reason - I don't think they know local florists do the delivering. They transmit flowers by Star Trek's Transporter.

I was told once if we couldn't do it (delivery out of state after 5PM) "Well I'll just call FTD then".

and - I bet FTD still took their order, figuring (possibly) they could go ahead and disappoint them and win them back with coupons.

Lots of people see these companies as the Mother Ship of us all.

Sucks yeah?