Wire Services Are Buying Your Customer

Status
Not open for further replies.
wire service wh neede them !

locateaflowershop.com ilocalflorist.com localflowershop.com

register on all of them free except if yo want a bulleted listing.

either use them yourself and charge a small transmission fee or give your cutomers the sites.................THEY APPRECIATE IT........in lieu of 1 800 etc etc
 
locateaflowershop.com ilocalflorist.com localflowershop.com

register on all of them free except if yo want a bulleted listing.

either use them yourself and charge a small transmission fee or give your cutomers the sites.................THEY APPRECIATE IT........in lieu of 1 800 etc etc

How can you tell if the shop you are using is any kind of decent?
 
User reviews! :>

I'm using Google Local more and more (plus a quick peek at the shops' websites.) If the site's interesting and current, I figure they're on the ball. If it's boilerplate boring with 'image coming soon' where the shop photo should be, I figure they're probably doing pretty basic design work.

Goodness knows the WS directories don't really help tell you who's good at what and who's not. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
User reviews! :>

I'm using Google Local more and more (plus a quick peek at the shops' websites.) If the site's interesting and current, I figure they're on the ball. If it's boilerplate boring with 'image coming soon' where the shop photo should be, I figure they're probably doing pretty basic design work.

Goodness knows the WS directories don't really help tell you who's good at what and who's not. ;)

I get many hits and orders from yahoo local and google local. You can even upload a slide show of your work. Search florist in Waynesfield, Ohio and you will see my listing. For more info on yahoo local, see my blog.
 
Hi Everyone,
Check out the new link on our website, last Friday's article on us.
Our past 28 years in 500 words...........www.countryflorist.net
And 40 more pictures.
If you have time, of course.............Hollywood :jester
PS: Thanks for your patience with me all this time, I appreciate it.
:musical::musical::musical::musical:
:newbie:newbie:newbie:newbie:newbie:newbie:newbie
 
Our turnover for the FTD Branded bouquets is very high. We receive numerous orders like my previous example on a weekly basis. Unless I'm missing something (which is quite possible), I truly believe I'm at least breaking even, if not turning a small profit on these orders. This coupled with my profits on my sending volume, I think the wire service is working for me.

By the way, most of the FTD branded and Florist.com incoming are very simple to fill. The labor is very low and a skilled designer is not necessary for these.

I don't think you're allowed to say that up in here.

Get him boys!
 
OK Bloomz,

LJVF says he's a top 1000 FTD sending florist. Depending on where he is in the top 1000 and the number of members FTD has, he is in the top 5%+- of all members. FTD may be a good deal for him, but what about the other 95% of florists.

I didn't respond to his request on why his shop maybe losing on his incoming FTD orders for two reasons. First, he didn’t provide us with clear enough details (probably intentionally), and two, he wasn’t being totally honest. He claimed he was on the fence, not biased, and open to persuasion, but clearly he does have a bias, otherwise he wouldn’t have given us such an extreme example. He’s a member of FTD, Teleflora, Bloomnet, IFA??, and probably others. I think his mind is made up.

Anyway, I’m not here to convince anybody of anything. I only voice my opinions for those smart enough to listen.

RC
 
So what's yer point OT?

You mean you haven't figured me out after all these years, Bloomzie. I'm still trying to save the world or at least, some florists from being sucked into this big black hole called wire service.

The SYSTEM benefits very few florists these days and most know it. A very large percentage of florists are needed just to subsidize the financial benefits of the few these days.

Each and everytime the subject of wire service is brought up, someone will always focus on one small segment and attempt to prove that it can be beneficial to florists. The SYSTEM should only be judged when ALL the aspects are added up and not just incoming or outgoing or special small town rates or whatever. And when you do that, the SYSTEM just doesn't look very good to the small and middle sized florists any more. The disadvantages far outweigh any advantages. Hopefully these discussions will get some to look more closely at what is being said and not just accept it as gospel.

But as usual, a major holiday is quickly approaching and here we are again where "the few" and trying to convince "the many" that "filling" can still be beneficial for them and their company. It will always please me to see younger florists like Inferno who have caught on and figured out where all the traps are.

Hope you and everything are well in Oregon.
 
OK Bloomz,

LJVF says he's a top 1000 FTD sending florist. Depending on where he is in the top 1000 and the number of members FTD has, he is in the top 5%+- of all members. FTD may be a good deal for him, but what about the other 95% of florists.

I didn't respond to his request on why his shop maybe losing on his incoming FTD orders for two reasons. First, he didn’t provide us with clear enough details (probably intentionally), and two, he wasn’t being totally honest. He claimed he was on the fence, not biased, and open to persuasion, but clearly he does have a bias, otherwise he wouldn’t have given us such an extreme example. He’s a member of FTD, Teleflora, Bloomnet, IFA??, and probably others. I think his mind is made up.

Anyway, I’m not here to convince anybody of anything. I only voice my opinions for those smart enough to listen.

RC

RC, I'll preface this by saying that I have nothing but respect for you and most of the flowerchatters. I may not agree with all your philosophies but I do know that anyone who's business is as successful as yours appears to be must know what they're doing.

I did not "intentionally" leave out details, I just tried to keep it as simple as possible. In my case, this is not an "extreme example", it's an average order that FTD.COM sends to me on a daily basis. I have a stack a mile high of orders that are very similar to the example. I also have orders that don't appear as profitable and orders that appear to be more profitable.

I will agree to your accusation that I am biased. But I'm honestly open to change. In fact I'm seriously considering dumping Bloomnet. You see my grandparents started the business in which I took over. We've been an FTD member since the beginning. I remember coming to the shop as a kid and typing in wire orders on that old FTD Mercury that was nothing more than a glorified typewriter with a modem. The so-called screen was a red digital display that had only one line that you could barely read. My point is that it's scary to me to even think of dumping something that's been an institution in our shop, especially if it's profitable.

I am really buying into the theory that sending should exceed receiving to be profitable. But I am hesitant to tweak it because I am having a hard time seeing where I'm losing money with the incoming. I was hoping that somebody would offer some insight into my particular situation.

I know that every shop has a different set of variables and have no problem with any of them dumping wire services all together.

And no my mind is not made up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
bloomz, don't call the dogs out on me, I said I "think" it's working for me! lol

Pssss- keep it quiet but I "think" it's working for me too. :bouncy:
 
But I am hesitant to tweak it because I am having a hard time seeing where I'm losing money with the incoming. I was hoping that somebody would offer some insight into my particular situation.
This wire service profitability calculator was posted by CHR some time ago. It may help you figure out your shop's individual situation, whether the WS works for you or not ....
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
What A GREAT TOPIC this has turned out to be!

With 332 POSTS and 5622 VIEWS, this topic is a WINNER as far as the discussion went.

I'll just add my usual 3 cents with a few old adages.

1. It is FAR BETTER to GIVE than to RECEIVE!
2. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
3. Nothing comes to those who wait!

While the WSs represent such a small portion of the majority of REAL FLORIST SHOP'S business, the real issue (in my umble opinion) is over the fact that, they COMPETE with their own MEMBERS for the MEMBER'S 100% SALE CUSTOMERS through their own DOT.CONs.

In addition, and thus adding more of their INSULT to our INJURY, they continue to SLEEP with a REAL FLORIST'S other enemies to include OGs, DOGs, and NON-LOCAL PHONIES.

Say what you may to either justify your WS affiliations or critique them as your competitors. In the end, it all comes down to YOU, WHAT YOU DOO, and WHO YOU DOO your DOO FOR? The final question is: WHAT'S LEFT IN YOUR WALLET after you get paid in their WS WAMPUM (gross less (-27%) less (-2%) incoming order transmission charges less annual dues and fees and after their SMOKE SCREEN disappears.

Your own spreadsheet will give you those results. I do not accept the argument that, the profits you've earned from the sending side of your outgoing business should be cost shifted over to subsidize any losses you incurred by filling the incoming business with one caveat.

If you only fill for OTHER REAL FLORISTS like yourself, that system of order transfers has always been a FAIR and EQUITABLE BALANCE of TRADE and EBB and FLOW.

That was how we always did it back in the day and when there were NO MIDDLEMAN OGs and DOGs to SKIM off OUR CREAM.
:bdaypig:
 
With 332 POSTS and 5622 VIEWS, this topic is a WINNER as far as the discussion went.

I'll just add my usual 3 cents with a few old adages.

1. It is FAR BETTER to GIVE than to RECEIVE!
2. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
3. Nothing comes to those who wait!

While the WSs represent such a small portion of the majority of REAL FLORIST SHOP'S business, the real issue (in my umble opinion) is over the fact that, they COMPETE with their own MEMBERS for the MEMBER'S 100% SALE CUSTOMERS through their own DOT.CONs.

In addition, and thus adding more of their INSULT to our INJURY, they continue to SLEEP with a REAL FLORIST'S other enemies to include OGs, DOGs, and NON-LOCAL PHONIES.

Say what you may to either justify your WS affiliations or critique them as your competitors. In the end, it all comes down to YOU, WHAT YOU DOO, and WHO YOU DOO your DOO FOR? The final question is: WHAT'S LEFT IN YOUR WALLET after you get paid in their WS WAMPUM (gross less (-27%) less (-2%) incoming order transmission charges less annual dues and fees and after their SMOKE SCREEN disappears.

Your own spreadsheet will give you those results. I do not accept the argument that, the profits you've earned from the sending side of your outgoing business should be cost shifted over to subsidize any losses you incurred by filling the incoming business with one caveat.

If you only fill for OTHER REAL FLORISTS like yourself, that system of order transfers has always been a FAIR and EQUITABLE BALANCE of TRADE and EBB and FLOW.

That was how we always did it back in the day and when there were NO MIDDLEMAN OGs and DOGs to SKIM off OUR CREAM.
:bdaypig:



With 332 POSTS and 5622 VIEWS, this topic is a WINNER as far as the discussion went.


:scooter::ned
 
if we can define the ws's as 800tftd, can we start using the ototo, as well for the anti ws side? ;)

I see ot and toto have taken a different approach to this debate. No more "Joe, ....."

Now I have asked a whole bunch of questions in this thread that no one has answered.

anyone care to review, from page 24 forward?

joe
 
if we can define the ws's as 800tftd, can we start using the ototo, as well for the anti ws side? ;)

I see ot and toto have taken a different approach to this debate. No more "Joe, ....."

Now I have asked a whole bunch of questions in this thread that no one has answered.

anyone care to review, from page 24 forward?

joe

Just a couple of questions first to clarify some things. Because you treat design labor as a fixed expense, you say that as long as incoming wire orders cover variable expenses (COGs) and delivery, it is not necessary to cover labor expense. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth so state it however you wish.

Secondly, I asked previously if you considered a driver as fixed or variable expense and you detailed all costs relating to delivery as either fixed or variable. It was just a simple question. If for example, I employ a driver for anywhere from 2 to 4 hours daily based on need, is the driver's expense fixed or variable? If I employ a PT designer as BOSS has indicated, is this designer still considered fixed or a variable expense?

And lastly, if you have a husband and wife as the sole employees and the wife does design and all flower related choirs and the books and the husband does the delivery and sales. They're joint owners. Are they considered a fixed expense or variable?
 
Not to confuse MY ISSUES Joe!

if we can define the ws's as 800tftd, can we start using the ototo, as well for the anti ws side? ;)
I see ot and toto have taken a different approach to this debate. No more "Joe, ....."
Now I have asked a whole bunch of questions in this thread that no one has answered. anyone care to review, from page 24 forward? joe

Sorry Joe, but I have never been anti ws!

Rather, I have always been PRO REAL FLORIST!

What I have always been against is OGs, DOGs, Non-Local Phonies, and anyone else, who trys to intercept and STEAL the 100% sales out from under and away from the REAL FLORISTS and come in between them and their traditional customers.

That crusade began in 1984 when the very first of those cancers invaded the body of FTDA and corrupted the souls and spirits of many of our own elected officials and some of our staff in FTDA.

In today's world, and since the WSs have decided to copy the same strategy used by the FLORAL ORDER SKIMMERS, their new business model is in complete contradiction with the goals and objectives of their very own member florists.

Accordingly, they now fall into the same category which I sought a vacine for, and beginning way back in 1984.

Both you and JB should USE THEM for all that they are worth to both of you!

Or at least until, they have used both of you all up!

Your affiliate is currently offering THEIR CONSUMERS FREE FREE FREE FTD Florist Same Day Delivery !!! FREE FTD Florist SAME DAY NATIONWIDE FLOWER DELIVERY !!! Is that a SIGN ON PROGRAM, I'm wondering?

http://www.ftdfloristsonline.com/fl...85245485454556565&campaign_tracking_id=183171

In addition they also offer THEIR CONSUMERS drop shipped flowers starting at $19.99 plus $ervice charges of $16.95 and sales tax for a delivery date of May 10, 2008. Are they paying any of THEIR MEMBERS a full 100% of $16.95 when you make deliveries for them, just like they pay FedEx or UPS?

http://www.ftd.com/2674/catalog/product.epl?product_id=FFDL&index_id=product_flowers_bestsellers

Of course, they are offering THEIR CONSUMERS a $10.00 discount since, their regular price is $29.99. At checkout, their total is 36.98 plus tax.

Now, I don't pretend to speak for anyone on THAT ISSUE! However, I can assure both of you that, my position is surely not anti ws, but rather, anti unfair competition by any company, especially the ones who are working off their own florist's dues and fees, while EATING THEIR OWN YOUNG!

Alas, and for some, they will always remain AN OTOTO HORSE OF A DIFFERENT COLOR! :rofl:
 


In addition they also offer THEIR CONSUMERS drop shipped flowers starting at $19.99 plus $ervice charges of $16.95 and sales tax for a delivery date of May 10, 2008. Are they paying any of THEIR MEMBERS a full 100% of $16.95 when you make deliveries for them, just like they pay FedEx or UPS?

http://www.ftd.com/2674/catalog/product.epl?product_id=FFDL&index_id=product_flowers_bestsellers

Of course, they are offering THEIR CONSUMERS a $10.00 discount since, their regular price is $29.99. At checkout, their total is 36.98 plus tax.

Point of clarification, I don't think they offer this particular item to be dropped shipped. Also, there is a $35.99 delivery charge for dropped shipped items for May 10th delivery and I doubt they give it all up to UPS, FedEx, etc...

Also any item in the Best Sellers catalog is not sent to FTD member florists unless they specifically signed up for the program.
 
Just a couple of questions first to clarify some things. Because you treat design labor as a fixed expense, you say that as long as incoming wire orders cover variable expenses (COGs) and delivery, it is not necessary to cover labor expense. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth so state it however you wish.

I am glad to answer this question....

On a daily, weekly and sometimes on a monthly basis, a flower shop will employ the same number of people irregardless of the daily, weekly or monthly work load. Over the long term, we all have to adjust labor up or down depending on sales.

Now specifically, if your COGS is $15-20 for a $50 incoming wire order, your wire discount and member fees will drop the sale to say $30. You will have $10-20 to contribute to your Fixed costs.

Your fixed costs, which includes labor, utiliities and a good portion of you delivery expenses will occur whether you make this sale or not. So if you have 50% labor and utilities expenses/to GS. Your additional $10 - $20 will help pay for those expenses.

It is not about earning a net profit that is derived from covering 100 pct of your expenses. It's about reducing the burden of fixed costs on 100pct of the sales.

Remember if you have $25 in fixed expenses per avg order and you accept a little more business at a discount, that discounted revenue over and above the variable costs of the sale will ease the burden (Contribute) to the average per sale fixed costs.



Secondly, I asked previously if you considered a driver as fixed or variable expense and you detailed all costs relating to delivery as either fixed or variable. It was just a simple question. If for example, I employ a driver for anywhere from 2 to 4 hours daily based on need, is the driver's expense fixed or variable? If I employ a PT designer as BOSS has indicated, is this designer still considered fixed or a variable expense?

This is where you fall down.... If you hire a person for 2-4 hours per day, every day, 5 days a week, 12 months out of the year, that part time person is a fixed expense. Why? because you did not tie that person to a particular sale. Now, holiday could be considered a variable expense, but it doesn't change the benefit of accepting additional discounted business.

No I didn't. Some items are fixed. Depreciation, insurance, etc are definitely fixed costs. The delivery driver may or may not be fixed. It depends if he is there only for deliveries or has other responsibilities.

Obviously, Gas, oil, and other maintenance items are variable.


And lastly, if you have a husband and wife as the sole employees and the wife does design and all flower related choirs and the books and the husband does the delivery and sales. They're joint owners. Are they considered a fixed expense or variable?

I suppose if they take a structured draw, or salary they would be considered fixed. However, if they are living out of the cash register then they shouldn't be in the business.

Now I have to get to work.

joe
 
Status
Not open for further replies.