1800Flowers "Premier Florist"

[lori042499]

This has nothing to do with the flower business, but business in general....

My Dad had a delivery business when i was growing up...A man from NY one day told him he had x amount of deliveries that he needed done in Boston....The next week a business was born....My Dad made a real nice living for my family, he was free to make deliveries and build his bsuiness on top of what this man provided, but he chose to depend on the work that was given to him at a price that he was told was available...he priced himself higher for local business and didn't get it because he had plenty with this other contract....

After about 20 years of running this business and making a good living, the man, who was so nice in offering this living, called and told my Dad that he would no longer be needing his services as he sold his business to a multi-million dollar company and they would be doing their own deliveries in house...needless to say this put my house into a tailspin...my Dad now al of a sudden had no business and 4 employees to let go....not a good scene...

Moral of this story is you can never rely on someone else to provide you business...you need to gather business for yourself at all times...You also can never rely on the business you have that is your own staying without cultvating it every day...because there is always someone out there wanting to take those customers from you....

I do use the WS to my advantage, but I do not rely on them for my business..I am always looking for inexpensive ways to get a customer, I am always building my business. I talk about my business to everyone that will listen, you never know who will need a florist or when it will come up in conversation...I have a great group of friends that also promote my business...This is the most important side of my business because customer loyalty is is not as strong as years ago, it is not a given, it needs to be nurtured and stroked all the time...

 

[BOSS]

BOSS's Quote of the day!!

you can never rely on someone else to provide you business...you need to gather business for yourself at all times...You also can never rely on the business you have that is your own staying without cultvating it every day...because there is always someone out there wanting to take those customers from you....

I could not have said it better....

 

[goldfish]

I can't tell you that you are completely wrong because I don't completely understand what your saying.

I don't either, oh well.

So what often happens is less analytical florists read your posts and want to believe what they are doing is OK.

I have a different kind of concern, though.

This forum is a select group of people. Most of experienced florists in this forum tend to agree to each other on the issues involving the profitability of wire-in orders. This creates an impression that the vast majority of experienced florists speak in a single voice.

Do the majority of experienced florists really speak in a single voice? I doubt it. It's just that people who have issues with the atmosphere of FC simply choose not to join (or join but do not participate in the debate).

Recall here that only few people here actually argue against FC authorities. As the result, it seems to me that the majority of thereads in FC nowadays has a fairly common theme, some kind of rant about enemies of "real florists" whatever that means. Are they really enemies? I don't know. At least, these threads are boring at best, dangerous at worst.

I simply don't believe there is any formula for the typical florist where chasing incoming wire orders a good practice. I've observed way too many instances where it has produced disastrous results.

I agree and disagree.

I agree that the florists chasing incoming orders tend to go out of business eventually. We agree on that, Randy.

I differ from you in that I view their chasing wire-in orders to be the consequence, as opposed to the cause, of the problem. In other words, I think that there is some fundamental problem in these shops in the first palce and, as the result, they end up having to chase wire-in orders.

If this is the case, simply getting rid of WS, the idea which has been frequently advocated in FC, won't help them. In fact, I believe such action will speed up their death.

I don't belive that WS is the problem. I believe that those struggling florists have numerous problems that have nothing to do with their being WS members. It seems to me that they are just blaming WS for what is essentially their own problem.

 

[LJVF]

I differ from you in that I view their chasing wire-in orders to be the consequence, as opposed to the cause, of the problem. In other words, I think that there is some fundamental problem in these shops in the first palce and, as the result, they end up having to chase wire-in orders.

If this is the case, simply getting rid of WS, the idea which has been frequently advocated in FC, won't help them. In fact, I believe such action will speed up their death.

I don't belive that WS is the problem. I believe that those struggling florists have numerous problems that have nothing to do with their being WS members. It seems to me that they are just blaming WS for what is essentially their own problem.

I agree with you on this goldfish. I think there are fundamental problems with struggling florists that go beyond the wire services. To expand on what you've said, I believe that no two flower shops are alike. There are so many variables that factor into whether one succeeds or fails. COGS and customer demographic vary. Flower availability differs from region to region, prices differ, customers average income, customers tastes, customers average age, delivery radius, rent, location of competitors, quality of product, sending order output, etc... all play a factor in a florists bottom line and all differ from florist to florist. This also plays a factor in how profitable an incoming wire order can be or won't be.

I truly believe that for some shops the wire services are detrimental, for some they can be profitable, and for most it's hovering around the break even point (probably more on the losing side just shy of break even) pretty much treading water and the cause of a lot of headache.

 

[LJVF]

Recall here that only few people here actually argue against FC authorities.

I think partly because they are very convincing, partly because they are right, partly because they are natural leaders and tend to speak out more, and partly because the lurkers are pretty much intimidated.

 

[Jerry]

If this is the case, simply getting rid of WS, the idea which has been frequently advocated in FC, won't help them. In fact, I believe such action will speed up their death.

I don't belive that WS is the problem. I believe that those struggling florists have numerous problems that have nothing to do with their being WS members. It seems to me that they are just blaming WS for what is essentially their own problem.

There is no other industry that will take a start up business and feed them orders to keep the smoke and mirror money flowing.

Take away the 3rd party BS OGers out of the equation, and you will get back to an ebb and flow that maybe the florists can handle(I dought though).

Take the 80-20-rebate away and lets see who can stand on their own 2 feet.

The ebb and flow is broken, because of the above. And that my friend stems from the WS, period. The buck stops with them. If the florists quit feeding the monster that is eating them up, oh well, you know it's the same ol same ol dance.

 

[goldfish]

There is no other industry that will take a start up business and feed them orders to keep the smoke and mirror money flowing.

Take away the 3rd party BS OGers out of the equation, and you will get back to an ebb and flow that maybe the florists can handle(I dought though).

Take the 80-20-rebate away and lets see who can stand on their own 2 feet.

The ebb and flow is broken, because of the above. And that my friend stems from the WS, period. The buck stops with them. If the florists quit feeding the monster that is eating them up, oh well, you know it's the same ol same ol dance.

Jerry, I read many of your posts and do respect your opinions.

But may I point out that you are just insisting your point above, not arguing it?? That's one common problem of this forum, especially when the issue is about WS.

Some people here have very strong opinions about the issue. That's fine, but they just keep insisting it. I think we need a dialog, not the contest of which one shouts louder.

 

[bloomz]

Wire services make convenient scapegoats don't they?

Goldie and LJVF and Lori are right on the money. But

Moral of this story is you can never rely on someone else to provide you business...you need to gather business for yourself at all times...You also can never rely on the business you have that is your own staying without cultvating it every day...because there is always someone out there wanting to take those customers from you....

Oh my Gawd she advocated Gathering Orders!!!

dirty word, dirty word

 

[MANORVILLE]

TEST :

New WS Members/Partners? Flunky's :

Take a look at your first year orders, and then the second and then third if applicable !
Remember to be sitting !

With us, 1st six months with a WS, it was slow to OK.
Then we erupted into pandemonium for two years, only to start the downgrade to WS member oblivion.

Is it a premeditated act ?
Far be it from me to make such a suggestion, but the facts are in the computers aren't they ?

For the past two weeks, other than my walk in and call ins, the WS orders are 75% or better, WS throw aways and OG orders.
What does that tell ya ?

No response necessary !!!!!!!!

 

[LJVF]

For the past two weeks, other than my walk in and call ins, the WS orders are 75% or better, WS throw aways and OG orders.
What does that tell ya ?

No response necessary !!!!!!!!

Point of clarification, are you saying that 75% of your total orders the last two weeks were wire in's?

 

[MANORVILLE]

NO, Based upon the past few years with the WS's, the current numbers reflect a substantial change.
The last two weeks, of WS orders, are 75% BS orders, compared to when we were new and naive.
Walkin in and call in are another ballgame.

The comment reflected WS only.

The point was to draw attention to how the game is played, by seemingly everyone.

Though I may at times, or most of the time, appear on top, it came at a great price, and will never be forgotten, at the hands of any/every WS.
SUCKER is soon to be removed from my forehead.

 

[CFD]

I believe you are talking about being a "preferred" florist. That means you will get the majority of the .com orders in your area. It has nothing to do with florist to florist orders. If you do not list in the directory, other florists do not know you even exist.

Sounds like a good plan. Spieling is what they are paid to do. Remember he is a salesman and his job is to sell to you. Buyer beware.
I have a couple of questions:
If you fail to send out 20 outs, is there a penalty? LOW SENDING FEE
If you have multiple town listings are you allowed to vary your delivery charge? NO, AND IF YOU ASK TO MANY TIMES THEY WILL SUSPEND YOUR SYSTEM
Can you set the time limit for your out of town deliveries? ?? ZIP CODES THAT YOU ARE NOT CODED FOR, YES.
If you don't get enough orders to use all of their product, will they buy them back? THEY SAY THEY WILL BUT I HAVE TWO CASES FROM THANKSGIVING AND CHRISTMAS THAT THEY HAVE YET TO BUY BACK.
If you have left-over product-can you carry them over to the next quarter and defer the cost? SOME CODIFIED CONTAINERS ARE "RENAMED" SO YOU CAN GET RID OF THEM
If something is "required" than how can they waive said requirement without penalty? ???
How many wire outs are you doing a month right now?
If you are a premier florist will they still be advertising 1-800-flowers in the top 10 when you google San Diego, Ca.? ABSOLUTELY - AND IN YOUR LOCAL PHONE BOOK
What will your monthly fees be? BASED ON HOW MANY INCOMING YOU GET
If the average order is $60 , what is the lowest order they will send you? LOTS AND LOTS OF $39.99 WHICH INCLUDES DELIVERY
Is delivery included in the $60 avg. order?

YES

 

[CFD]

SUCKER is soon to be removed from my forehead.

DITTO THAT!!:thumbsup

 

[Jerry]

Or we could?

Jerry, I read many of your posts and do respect your opinions.

But may I point out that you are just insisting your point above, not arguing it?? That's one common problem of this forum, especially when the issue is about WS.

Some people here have very strong opinions about the issue. That's fine, but they just keep insisting it. I think we need a dialog, not the contest of which one shouts louder.

Just sit around the camp fire and sing kumbiah(sp) together, like everyone has done for the last 7 yrs I've been around these chat boards.

My statement is the crux of the problem in this industry. Take the drug lords and the drug money out of the industry, and you will have the finest floral industry back in the hands of the creators again.

Sorry Goldy, no talk in the world will change the greed involved in this game. And I'm not much of a hand holder either.

I do have the faith that GOOD will win this time around. Just look at all the changing of attitudes in the last year on the boards.:wallhead:

 

[lori042499]

Wire services make convenient scapegoats don't they?

Goldie and LJVF and Lori are right on the money. But



Oh my Gawd she advocated Gathering Orders!!!

dirty word, dirty word

I think that the world would be a better place if we (the real florists) did what we do best and sell flowers and use our own judgement on where our customers orders go to...

Not one of the florists on this board has huge amounts of dissapointed customers at the holidays, because we know not to promise what we can't deliver. This tells me that we should all be gathering up as many customers as possible to send flowers where ever they need to go, next door, the next state, the next country or around the world...We are the only ones that can service our customers with and honest to goodness personal consumer experience, unfortunately most of us don't have the money backing to yell it from the rooftops and every yellow page ad out there....so it is a very slow process and so many go out of business before they get the word out....

I will say it, I have no problem gathering orders...I f I can service a customer in Alabama better than someone else and send the flowers back to Alabama so be it, better me that fu flowers..

 

[Bigted]

Just sit around the camp fire and sing kumbiah(sp) together, like everyone has done for the last 7 yrs I've been around these chat boards.

My statement is the crux of the problem in this industry. Take the drug lords and the drug money out of the industry, and you will have the finest floral industry back in the hands of the creators again.

Sorry Goldy, no talk in the world will change the greed involved in this game. And I'm not much of a hand holder either.

I do have the faith that GOOD will win this time around. Just look at all the changing of attitudes in the last year on the boards.:wallhead:

The only way to seriously change the industry's direction and to restore the image that we once had would be to change the WS terms. Eliminate the rebates, don't allow service charges and charge a flat delivery fee that goes to the filler. Basically, get back to a flat 80/20. Quality would go up immediately, it wouldn't be profitable to steal someone else's orders and our industry would rebound. Needless to say, this ain't gonna happen.

 

[goldfish]

Just sit around the camp fire and sing kumbiah(sp) together, like everyone has done for the last 7 yrs I've been around these chat boards.

My statement is the crux of the problem in this industry. Take the drug lords and the drug money out of the industry, and you will have the finest floral industry back in the hands of the creators again.

Sorry Goldy, no talk in the world will change the greed involved in this game. And I'm not much of a hand holder either.

I do have the faith that GOOD will win this time around. Just look at all the changing of attitudes in the last year on the boards.:wallhead:

Jerry, your problem is that you are so convinced of the "rightness" of your opinions that you actually don't listen to anyone who have a different opinion.

It's very telling that you used the word "GOOD" to describe your position, implying that anyone who disagree with you is bad. Your opinion in your mind is absolutely correct, and therefore there is no need to discuss, isn't there?

What I mean by "insisting, not arguing" in my prev post is that, instead of refuting your opponent's idea point by point, you simply chose to repeat your anti-WS rhetoric. I don't think that's the way a debate is supposed to work.

 

[bloomz]

ahhh but Jerry's a good guy, make that a great guy who seems to have it working for him, and a very progressive one at that.

It may be the SOS but so are the wire arguments that start anew with darn near every new member we get up in here.

 

[fashions]

Dont do it .... They are doing this b/c the are eliminating the l f c everywhere... If you want the orders you will get the orders ....
I would figure out how much this will cost you and do direct marketing to your own customers ! ! !

 

[LJVF]

Dont do it .... They are doing this b/c the are eliminating the l f c everywhere... If you want the orders you will get the orders ....
I would figure out how much this will cost you and do direct marketing to your own customers ! ! !

Actually you make a lot of sense. I think there is something going on with the lfc's, at least here in SD.