2.6 million unit sales : what do you think?

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Simon Says

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Apr 1, 2011
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TF 'phoned this morning in an effort to get me to sign me back up and dangled all manner of proverbially, to Teleflora, tempting baubles, bangles and beads in front of me.

During the telecon., the gentleman advised that the power of Teleflora's advertising was what set them apart from the "others" and that V-Day 2012 was their best ever. No, we did not go down the path of seemingly their highest ever number of complaints.

He also said that TF member websites in 2011 generated a combined 2.6 million web transactions, "...the best in the industry". Apparently there are 18,000 members, although it was not clear that all members had TF's website and I am assuming that they do not. IF there are 18k TF members and 2/3rds had TF based websites, 2.6 million transactions is 217 per site per year or average of 18 per site each month.

That does not strike me as particularly high - 217 per site per year - but TF claim it, 2.6 million, is an industry high.

What do you think?
 
it's a common sales tactic. Throw out an amazing number for shock and awe. The salesperson was not counting on a florist who can do simple arithmetic.

I saw on TV the other day where Listerine claimed that they clean 75% more than a toothbrush. They had a fine print disclaimer that teeth only account for 25% of your mouth...
 
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IIRC, didn't I read somewhere that in the US there are only 17,000 florists?

I just checked our (independent) website stats. From 1/1/11 - 12/31/11, we had 215 orders placed. Means we're 2 off from TF's supposed average. The key is that of those 215 orders, I got to keep 100% of the money, and my annual costs for both of my sites is $240, (*see below) with includes SSL certificate. Monthly cost for the average TF/FTD website is $80 (or more).

So here's some more numbers using some averages:

Average website sale; $60
Total annual sales for the TF avg of 217/yr; $13020
TF Charges the florist $3.50 (?) per order; -$759.50
Avg annual website cost; -$960.00
Florist Net; $11,300.50

Using the same numbers for an independent;

Gross sales; $13020.00
Costs; $240.00
Net; $12780.00

That's $1400 that TF gets along with everything else they get.
With your own website, YOU have COMPLETE control over every aspect.
With TF/FTD, you get to look just like every other florist out there.


* - Anette wants me to be sure and tell you that your actual costs may vary.
 
BloomingFlorida said:
IIRC, didn't I read somewhere that in the US there are only 17,000 florists?

I just checked our (independent) website stats. From 1/1/11 - 12/31/11, we had 215 orders placed. Means we're 2 off from TF's supposed average. The key is that of those 215 orders, I got to keep 100% of the money, and my annual costs for both of my sites is $240, (*see below) with includes SSL certificate. Monthly cost for the average TF/FTD website is $80 (or more).

So here's some more numbers using some averages:

Average website sale; $60
Total annual sales for the TF avg of 217/yr; $13020
TF Charges the florist $3.50 (?) per order; -$759.50
Avg annual website cost; -$960.00
Florist Net; $11,300.50

Using the same numbers for an independent;

Gross sales; $13020.00
Costs; $240.00
Net; $12780.00

That's $1400 that TF gets along with everything else they get.
With your own website, YOU have COMPLETE control over every aspect.
With TF/FTD, you get to look just like every other florist out there.


* - Anette wants me to be sure and tell you that your actual costs may vary.
Click to expand...

You also forgot the fees just to belong to TF, the cost of new selection guides, the cost of processing credit cards if you do them through TF, shipping costs on their containers, the actual cost of their containers, "quality control" fees, POS cost, POS maintenance, cancel fees, etc etc...TF get a helluva lot more of your money than people realize.
 
jamie said:
TF costs alot more than $80 a month. Web hosting is $100 per month plus $3.50 for every order. That does not include the $100 that you have to pay for the Dove.
Click to expand...

Ah, wasn't really sure what the monthly was. I think it was in the $80 range a couple of years ago, and that's all I had to go with... Thanks!

shannonlovesflowers said:
You also forgot the fees just to belong to TF, the cost of new selection guides, the cost of processing credit cards if you do them through TF, shipping costs on their containers, the actual cost of their containers, "quality control" fees, POS cost, POS maintenance, cancel fees, etc etc...TF get a helluva lot more of your money than people realize.
Click to expand...

Yes, I was just comparing the website costs/profits, not the overall evil entity of the wires. ;)
 
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IF the 2.6 million transactions is correct, that equates to US$9.1million (@US$3.50 per transaction that they cream off the top).

IF they have around 12k websites, assuming each different/unique, @ US$100 per month rental fee, thats US$14.4million a year.

One could go on - cost of website related adds in their on-line directory for example is surely earning them US$1mill+ a year.

But the real issue is how good is the assumed average of 217 transactions per website annually? Are their websites good at attracting search engines and then at capturing a sale. For all we know the florist sites using FTD may actually have a higher per site transaction figure but score lower than TF in total website transactions because of fewer florists sites. I just think 217 estimate is nothing particularly good.
 
Depending on who's number you want to believe, my research shows me about 14,000 florists of which, 4k or so are not any wire service or just FSN. Thye might have 4k sites at best. I think there numbers are form 2010 (lasy full year with from You). From You generates (or did) over 1 million orders a year through the TF system, now on Bloom. So, I'm sure they would count that as "there site" even though it's not. So, if you take that out and 200k from the other gatherers, then the number might get closer. The "koolaid" is real sweet right now (for them I mean).....................
 
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For TF to make claims as to the number of transactions and their members they have to be looking at something.

If it is out-of-date with regards to florist numbers and they are using expired data to make a sale then why am I -or we?- not surprised.

IF they did have 2.6 million transactions -or even 1.6 million but a mere fraction of florist websites that would dramatically push up the average per website and, at least in theory, make it easier to sell their website. 1.6 mill transactions across 4k florist websites is an average of 400 transactions per site - a considerable difference (in the favor of the "power" of the florist TF based site).
 
I think they all deal in the "best number" scenario, I catch myself doing it sometimes. In March of 2009 I hit a 29.6% return on my reminder programs. Normally it's 14 - 15%, but I catch myself teaching at seminars talking about my best number ever, but I always throw in the average. Most don't!! More and more people want to "look good", so they adjust. How would they look if they said, "oh, we are down 1.1 million orders" (from From You leaving), so they adjusted to the web transaction numbers that make them look good. Not justifying, just say'in...................FTD when they pour the koolaid, they boost of the highest per. ticket value of the three ($63 plus). They don't tell florists, that's two $250 orders for every 10 - $30 orders, still hits $63.................just say'in..........
 
Just an FYI for you, one of our state association members received "the call" and the push.. then stated that TF was partnered with our State Association. After thinking about that statement, the member emailed the person who was doing the sell and had her respond in writing that they were PARTNERED with the Maine Florists' Association. She forwarded the email to our incoming president who immediately sent it to me and we made sure the member knew that was a blatant lie. We are considering our actions because if they are stating this to other prospective shops, it is just plain wrong.

My comments to TF cold call last week (both of them) was "After the Valentine's Day debaucle by Teleflora, why would I even consider after all that bad press". The caller snickered then we hung up!
 
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When we first acquired our shop, the previous owner had a TF website in place. His best month was 4 orders through the website. I truly believe that the FYF numbers are included in that sales pitch, or they are flat out lying. If there are less than 20k florists in the US, are they saying that all but 2k are TF members? I'd love to see current numbers as to how many florists/shops there are, not including OG's, and then see the true numbers not including any of the non-fillers (OG's). I think Simon Says' estimate of 4k florists with TF websites is even high. That's 200 florists per state that are TF with a TF website.

I would love to be inside the head of a florist that gets a call from TF/FTD and then actually signs up with them....:hammer:
 
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Well my Indie web site brought me 120 orders this Feb adding approx $6,000 to my total sales compared to the last time I had a TF site in Feb a few years ago and I had 12 orders for the month. I think almost any site is going to perform better than a wire service site because they don't want consumers to go to our sites. They use all their SEO to bring people to TF.com. Even if you love the wire services you should get an Indie web site.
 
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concord said:
Well my Indie web site brought me 120 orders this Feb adding approx $6,000 to my total sales compared to the last time I had a TF site in Feb a few years ago and I had 12 orders for the month. I think almost any site is going to perform better than a wire service site because they don't want consumers to go to our sites. They use all their SEO to bring people to TF.com. Even if you love the wire services you should get an Indie web site.
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120 web orders in Feb 2012 I think is impressive: congrats.
 
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Simon Says said:
120 web orders in Feb 2012 I think is impressive: congrats.
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My web site people do a great job marketing my site. We just had a meeting today and we came up with some more ideas. Most of these orders were for Concord. Recently the only florist in the next town over closed, so we will concentrate on that market for web orders now.
 
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I can honestly say we have a much higher average sale on web orders with our indy site. We did so many of those $29.99 bowls when we were TF we actually kept 1 made up in our cooler at all times. Now the orders are more spread out and for all different dollar amounts. Our average order from our website for Feb was ~ $65 up from our average last year at $49. That is because of many factors. Most because we set our designs and our prices and we no longer offer 20 different things at $24.99. Also we get so MANY complements on our website and they tell us they picked us because we had different things to pick from.

I will say that if I HAD to choose a website wire service I would go TF over FTD any day of the week. I find TF sites more visually appealing and I think the layout looks more professional. This is based on the websites in my area, not sure if FTD has new designs and the florists here just use the old ones.
 
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