They've all had this charge....FTD included, only the ratio was 7 to 1 and now they're changing it to 3 to 1
Real nice they try to steal all the outgoing orders and then fine you if you don't send out enough!!!
Bleeding the Turnips
- Thread starter CHR
- Start date
They've all had this charge....FTD included, only the ratio was 7 to 1 and now they're changing it to 3 to 1
Real nice they try to steal all the outgoing orders and then fine you if you don't send out enough!!!
Flowerchatter03
Co-Owner and Floral Composer
steve
Well-Known Member
I am no longer FTD so I did not get the notice but the 5% penalty what is that being calculated against?
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
If you have an INcoming vs outgoing of 3:1 or more... so, if you're a filler, you get screwed....again...
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
Mikey, while that is the simplistic answer that some on this board will cheer, I believe it goes much further than that.
"Simon Says" asked a pertinent question... What is FTD doing right?
All of the big guys (FTD, TF, 1-800, Proflowers) have websites that provide the consumer with a great retail environment. As well they have developed solid partnerships with airlines and other loyalty or discount programs. They are catering their retail message to the consumer and in most cases apparently providing them with what they want. While that can be debated, the reality is their sales continue to rise so they are obviously moving in the direction that all businesses strive for.
Now I suspect that some will respond to this by posting comments about, photo-shopping, under valued orders, skimming, and any other issue where they feel the WS's are shafting the florist. However lets get some perspective here, in the end we are discussing an average consumer that in a good year buys flowers on-line 2 times (if that). As such they have little if any interest in getting up to speed on the infrastructure of having flowers delivered, or how the local florist may feel he is getting shafted, they just want it done! The consumer is a fickle creature and their loyalties are fleeting to say the least, they will throw all concern for the future aside to save $20.00 on a pair of jeans, or say $10.00 on a floral gift.
As well, the brand names in our industry bring with them a high level of implied safety, something that the independent may not have, particularly when it comes to the internet and a consumer is shopping from across the country.
steve
Well-Known Member
I understand Mark that they are screwwing the florist but what I want to know is the 5% what is that 5% of is it the total incoming for the month?
anytimeflowers
Linda
Doug, I honestly don't think FTD, or any of the other big brands are doing it right. They are "apparently" giving the consumer what they want, but in reality are treating them just as they do the small florists, as turnips to be bled.
FWIW, I get orders from across the world, not just the country. The difference is that when someone from Sweden places an order on my website, they CAN be certain that what they see is what they get without any photo-shopping, or under-valuing, or skimming to be made and delivered by me and my guarantee. There is no implied safety, it's solid.
I do understand that you have the best interests of the consumer AND the florist at heart with your post, I just honestly don't think that FTD is doing it "right". jmo
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
Doug, I pretty much agree with most of your post, except the bold parts above... while they are true, my store had zero defaults this past holiday, while FTD still had 17,000 unresolved defaults (likely many caused by local florists) 5 days later. The "implied safety" was built by florists over decades, and being torn apart by non-florists in short order...
Allow me to clarify what I meant by the use of the sentence "What is FTD doing right?" The clarification may be best made by completely re-phrasing the question as "How is FTD growing their turnover?"
Reading the comments all ready made, it seems to be a blend of their funeral home website activity, consumers trading up, more "add-on" sales, web partner activity returning -in the form of, for example, airline mile redemption- and, primarily IMO, their expanded drop-ship range ---- why expand if it is not doing too well?
I also see Linda's point and feel that, in terms of revenue growth, FTD is not shafting the florist but the consumer with "photoshopped" images and to the occasional on-line floral consumer, cunningly phrased fees.
As for "...implied safety...", I think there is the psychology of influence from a century old brand at play here. Good for FTD working their brand but their public mis-steps last seen at V-Day and the ease of mass consumer commentary seem to as potent a force in terms of eating away at consumer confidence and the implied security of a major brand.
Reading the comments all ready made, it seems to be a blend of their funeral home website activity, consumers trading up, more "add-on" sales, web partner activity returning -in the form of, for example, airline mile redemption- and, primarily IMO, their expanded drop-ship range ---- why expand if it is not doing too well?
I also see Linda's point and feel that, in terms of revenue growth, FTD is not shafting the florist but the consumer with "photoshopped" images and to the occasional on-line floral consumer, cunningly phrased fees.
As for "...implied safety...", I think there is the psychology of influence from a century old brand at play here. Good for FTD working their brand but their public mis-steps last seen at V-Day and the ease of mass consumer commentary seem to as potent a force in terms of eating away at consumer confidence and the implied security of a major brand.
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
I admit I have little knowledge about the role of FTD in Canada, or how FTDs role plays out there, perhaps it's different there.
But, the facts are still the facts here in the US. It was not all that long ago, FTD.com did not exist, no company generated orders, yes the company, having become a for profit organization has a right to go this route, no argument there.
I talk to a lot of florists, many of them "top members" and nearly every one confirms (and some won't confirm) that their outgoing volume has dropped by 50% or more in the last 5 years.
FTD has not generated, but taken order volume. And now they are in the process of squeezing the fillers, without whom they and the big senders will have nowhere to send those same orders. They are killing the flowers by wire side of the biz by making it unhealthy to be a member unless you are a sender, and big senders are still supporting this...why?
This thread is not about photoshopped images, it's about big brother taking more than they deserve from the peasants who can't afford it. If they wanted 5% more, why not take it from the 20%? Because the big senders who do have a voice won't stand for it, they'd rather ride the train to the end of the tracks, then, and only then, once the games over completely, will they stand up. Too late most likely.
But, the facts are still the facts here in the US. It was not all that long ago, FTD.com did not exist, no company generated orders, yes the company, having become a for profit organization has a right to go this route, no argument there.
I talk to a lot of florists, many of them "top members" and nearly every one confirms (and some won't confirm) that their outgoing volume has dropped by 50% or more in the last 5 years.
FTD has not generated, but taken order volume. And now they are in the process of squeezing the fillers, without whom they and the big senders will have nowhere to send those same orders. They are killing the flowers by wire side of the biz by making it unhealthy to be a member unless you are a sender, and big senders are still supporting this...why?
This thread is not about photoshopped images, it's about big brother taking more than they deserve from the peasants who can't afford it. If they wanted 5% more, why not take it from the 20%? Because the big senders who do have a voice won't stand for it, they'd rather ride the train to the end of the tracks, then, and only then, once the games over completely, will they stand up. Too late most likely.
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
Linda,
My point in the implied safety is what the customer "perceives" that is why I used the word implied.
Again , lets bear in mind that the average individual out on the street probably does not order flowers online once or twice a year. So they are not the savvy flower buyer that many on this board feel that with a bit of education will jump right over to supporting the local florist. Consumers are fickle to say the least and most seek the simplest path to what they want that will provide the most immediate gratification at the lowest cost, @@@@ the consequences. So when they go online and have a choice between FTD, Teleflora, Proflowers, or say Anytime Flowers, the vast majority will go with the big brand they recognize (by the way Linda this comment is not in ANY WAY intended to be a poke in the eye towards your business, just an observation). Maybe if they had all the facts they MIGHT decide otherwise, but by the same token how many denim jeans are made in the US anymore, that shifted overseas long ago and is gone for good along with all the associated domestic jobs. Why, so Costco and Walmart could meet 19.99 price points.
Just saying.....
My point in the implied safety is what the customer "perceives" that is why I used the word implied.
Again , lets bear in mind that the average individual out on the street probably does not order flowers online once or twice a year. So they are not the savvy flower buyer that many on this board feel that with a bit of education will jump right over to supporting the local florist. Consumers are fickle to say the least and most seek the simplest path to what they want that will provide the most immediate gratification at the lowest cost, @@@@ the consequences. So when they go online and have a choice between FTD, Teleflora, Proflowers, or say Anytime Flowers, the vast majority will go with the big brand they recognize (by the way Linda this comment is not in ANY WAY intended to be a poke in the eye towards your business, just an observation). Maybe if they had all the facts they MIGHT decide otherwise, but by the same token how many denim jeans are made in the US anymore, that shifted overseas long ago and is gone for good along with all the associated domestic jobs. Why, so Costco and Walmart could meet 19.99 price points.
Just saying.....
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
- 9,206
- 3,792
- 113
- 71
- State / Prov
- Ontario
ah yes, the defense mechanism is alive and well.
I think my reference would implicate that my memory serves me well, when it "mattered" that you WERE a florist, if you belonged to FTD....apparently, the Pillsbury dough boy has his finger is the cookie jar now,as well!
When those of us with ethics, are done with the flower industry, there ain't a "photo-shopped" image out there, that matters any more...it's a game now, take the customer's money FIRST, THEN, see if there's anyone out there that "cares"....
Like I said before, the ONLY folks that make wire services "relevant" are silly florists, and there's NO pearly gates for OG's to pass through, on their way through the obstetrics department.
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
- 9,206
- 3,792
- 113
- 71
- State / Prov
- Ontario
let's just say, maybe folks just DON'T trust flower giving, as an industry anymore
anytimeflowers
Linda
Doug,
No offense taken, I understand clearly what you are saying. It's quite possible that you are right for this instance where someone is shopping online and unfamiliar with the area and so will choose the "cheapest" offer out there ~ especially if they recognize a brand.
I had a caller from Colorado who admitted she had hunted through 32 websites in the twin cities before she found mine and made her purchase. The reason she gave? The other ones all had the same images or close to the same and she recognized that.
Just as the internet is ever growing in terms of dollars spent shopping, so is the number of savvy online shoppers. The novice will type in "Flowers" and get all of the usual suspects, see those $19.99 price points, and swallow it whole. They won't do that again if/when they have a bad experience.
With FTD charging this extra premium, they will force more florists out of their membership ranks and will continue to drive sales through their drop-ship. Again, those who are novices will fall for it but once they show up at Grandpa's wake and discover their under-developed flowers haphazardly bundled into a vase or, in some cases a box (FD's who refuse to be floral designers) they will become more savvy. Or, they will send a card instead.
These are my fears and I believe them to be relevant.
steve
Well-Known Member
So lets peel this onion back a bit farther as I too think that this will force still more florist to drop out this summer. Which means still less end points for them to have orders filled. I would think the order gatherer's that primarily use FTD are going to have to move their business?
bootcampguy
Well-Known Member
Or use FTD as sending only, then numbers don't apply and move their other business to 800 or TF.
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
- 9,206
- 3,792
- 113
- 71
- State / Prov
- Ontario
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
- 9,206
- 3,792
- 113
- 71
- State / Prov
- Ontario
I think it be better referenced as "moving their business model".....without the services of REAL FLORISTS!
Onions ARE essential as an "element", but, peeling them makes you cry, oh wait, NOW I see!
I am no longer in FTD, so I can't say for 100% what their policy is now.
However, under the old reciprocity guidelines, you could easily have reciprocity waived if you sent all of your orders through FTD. It did not matter how many per month you sent as long as 100% of them were through FTD. They would only waive the fees for 6 months at a time, and it was not uncommon for them to "forget" to waive them from time to time, so you would have to call and get a credit.
I had never found a "rejection fee" that many of you talk about. They charged you a mercury fee whether you fill or reject an order, but you could also call every month and ask that those fees be credited back to you for all rejected or canceled orders. I called on the 11th of every month, and never had a problem getting those fees refunded.
This new policy just does not bother me or surprise me. FTD is a for-profit company that has to answer to stockholders. They need to have short term positive news, so they are squeezing members for a fast cash infusion. It is no coincidence this is happening right before Mother's Day, which is the biggest wire holiday of the year.
Do I feel sorry for FTD member shops? No. They are my competition, and this is not some bad stroke of luck. This is simply the latest screw being turned. I was a member for three years, and noticed this trend right away. The people still in FTD are either, sending shops who are turning profit through clever marketing, high service fees, and awesome rebates or filling shops who either don't have the brains to do the math or the backbone to make the decision based on the math.
The same shops who are paying these fees are probably also overpaying for flowers, phone service, and most everything else. They are probably also owed thousands of dollars in old house charges. You can't help those who won't help themselves.
However, under the old reciprocity guidelines, you could easily have reciprocity waived if you sent all of your orders through FTD. It did not matter how many per month you sent as long as 100% of them were through FTD. They would only waive the fees for 6 months at a time, and it was not uncommon for them to "forget" to waive them from time to time, so you would have to call and get a credit.
I had never found a "rejection fee" that many of you talk about. They charged you a mercury fee whether you fill or reject an order, but you could also call every month and ask that those fees be credited back to you for all rejected or canceled orders. I called on the 11th of every month, and never had a problem getting those fees refunded.
This new policy just does not bother me or surprise me. FTD is a for-profit company that has to answer to stockholders. They need to have short term positive news, so they are squeezing members for a fast cash infusion. It is no coincidence this is happening right before Mother's Day, which is the biggest wire holiday of the year.
Do I feel sorry for FTD member shops? No. They are my competition, and this is not some bad stroke of luck. This is simply the latest screw being turned. I was a member for three years, and noticed this trend right away. The people still in FTD are either, sending shops who are turning profit through clever marketing, high service fees, and awesome rebates or filling shops who either don't have the brains to do the math or the backbone to make the decision based on the math.
The same shops who are paying these fees are probably also overpaying for flowers, phone service, and most everything else. They are probably also owed thousands of dollars in old house charges. You can't help those who won't help themselves.
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
Only works if there is someone to send to... currently they are approaching around 8000 florist members, Bad Bobby Norton did a study years ago and determined it would take about 9000 to cover 95% of the country with the other 5% being not worth worrying about. 8000 seems a bit short... and now we are seeing drop outs from the Top 100 Members and more... over 160 drops last month alone...
Now, FTD claims it's a net as they are signing up members (I doubt its a net myself), but I question what the quality of those shops they are signing up are? As we saw at Valentines, MANY of the consumer complaints were caused by the filling florist, not the wire service of choice, so couple decreased membership numbers with degradation in quality, and their problems (and those of sending florists too) are likely only to get worse. I'll bet the complaints after this Mothers Week will be somewhat horrific to those of us that run quality operations.