Creativity and/or the lack of it

[Tuberose]

Beautiful work Shannon!

Yeah Joe, I know Twila is AIFD and I'm sure she can do creative, which is why I don't understand why selling creative arrangements is such a handicap to him. I can also understand having a different viewpoint on a subject, having a hard time understanding why anyone would continue to beat folks over the head about this unless he enjoys yanking our chain. Will have to ask Twila when she gets back, I'm sure she has an opinion.

:argue:

 

[LJVF]

Still, I completely agree with one important element of his contention: a florist must choose a market niche to target, or it won't grow.

Goldie, does Mr. Royer explain why he chose the "merchant niche" over the others?

So if you want to position your shop similar to Avante Gardens or Jacob Maarse or any of the successful Artist Florists, there's nothing wrong with that.

Cathy has developed a highly successful business, but in my opinion, very difficult for the average florist to duplicate. It takes a unique combination of artistry, business sense, hard work and organization to reach this level and maintain it. Kudos to her, and like goldie said, there's nothing wrong with that.

Any level of success in business takes a unique combination of special qualities. Odds are against most and even more so against florists. If one were to get lucky enough to create a business that is significantly growing, there comes a certain point when an owner will lose control of costs and the ability to maintain quality unless he/she streamlines production. Owners must then make the choice of which direction they want to go. Do they want to maintain their level of success, or do they want to expand and continue to grow, but sacrifice some creativeness?

I think Ken Royer chose the latter.

I also want to point out that Joe's advice to "Listen to your customer" is excellent.

 

[lori042499]

Some shops or customer bases just don't want famcy schmancy, period...

I tried and tried to sell the upscale flowers...I love my high end work it is what I did for 10 years. I was used to selling 100.00 arrangements everyday. I was used to people comeing into the shop and asking me to create a one of a kind work of art. I was used to people knowing flowers and art..What I did not know at the time I bought my shop was that location and demographics plays a huge role in all of that...I had no idea that an existing shop would be hard to change...These are the things you learn....

I am changing slowly...by Goldfish's post I am changing from the neighborhood flower shop the the merchant florist niche...My arrangements are well crafted and not too artsy but do not look like the hospital cooler...I am slow enough now that most everything is unique but quick to design....I use creativity but rarely do anything wacky....My shop work stands out among other shops...I know this because I ran out of supertickets and forgot to put a sticker on my blank ones and a FD called me with a question and asked if it was my piece and when I said yes, he said I knew it because of the style....

Cookie cutter to me is not neccessarily carns and poms in a round mond basket....Cookie cutter to me is reusing the same basic design over and over...or the same basic vase over and over...I can regualrly change the flowers in it and change the look but it is still the same basic design that takes no thought and can be whipped up in 10 minutues...

I was recently in a shop near me and their cooler looked like the hospital...Bud vases and baskets all made out of poms and carns in all different colors probably rangeing from 15-40 dollars...maybe 10 of them...I keep very little made up ahead because the majority of people who bother to come into the shop pick out what they want and I design it on the spot....Customers seem to love it and all comment on how fast it gets done...I know this goes against the norm, but it is the way I work...I do keep stuff at holidays when people are in a big hurry and I am swamped...

Every shop is different. I had a choice to be a starving artist and carry what I liked and what I wanted to work with and not sell it all or conform to what my customers wanted and sell and grow...

 

[RWK]

..........why selling creative arrangements is such a handicap to him. I can also understand having a different viewpoint on a subject..................

I think you hit the nail on it's proverbial head with this statement. It may not be that creative styles don't sell, It may be that he can't SELL them.

It might just come down to a matter of SALESMANSHIP and the technique of selling.

You've heard the expression, "He could sell ice to an eskimo", well, I have met people who can do just that.

IF you have trouble selling......read another book titled "The Greatest Salesman in the World" by Og Mandino.

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

I like Loris definition of cookie cutter... I called what she described as a "one trick pony"

Honestly, I was a one trick pony, I had to force myself to design out of my comfort zone. I am mostly a table trained designer, meaning I did only simple arrangements for years. That's what I was taught "a good designer" can do.

I was even told all that stuff you see at design shows are stupid, You can't sell that stuff here. And I would hear people saying that no matter where I worked or what state I was living in.

But I knew for me I needed to expand my capabilities, so I started making an artsy design once in a while, just to see if I could do it. Then what do ya know people liked them! Don't get me wrong, I have had people order artsy and then the recipient hated it, made a simple arrangement for them and exchanged it, and they loved it. so you never know.

Hitomi even told me she has people tell her "this is too weird". Her own life long customers! So it happens to us all.

I feel now I'm not such a one trick pony. i want to be able to do at least 5 or 6 tricks!!

 

[CHR]

Hey - I'm on vacation so this reply is super brief....

1 - Our shop is not some super high-end store. We are located in an average neighborhood and stock arrangements for less than $20 in our cooler. We offer contemporary designs for under $40 but their costs and contents are conrolled by recipe.

2 - I do have a respect for Royer and think he got the scene mostly right, but like Goldie said, the quote in the opening post was a bit out of context.

3 - The industry has changed since the 90's. IMO some of the largest florists are seeing the big drops in sales (by percentage) because their products and identities have been co-opted by OGs. If everyone is offering the same few sets of products, then price (and discounts, and coupons) can easily sway consumers.

4 - Frequent flower buyers are golden. Ask yourself if your company gives them reasons to return to you again and again. Needless to say, there are many factors that contribute to repeat puchases - but if price is the primary one, they'll eventually find someone cheaper.

We've picked our niche. It works for us.

 

[Jerry]

You're all forgetting, Twila and Bloomzie are two different animals in the same skin. Under the same roof you have Twila(the tigeress), an accomplished designer-business person-organizer, and local P/R.

Under the same roof you have Bloomzie(big foot), the stay local, think global guy.

They have the best of both worlds going, and I admire them for that.

Bloomzie wants to send easy to arrange flower arrangements, so that any florist any where in the world can do the arrangement with no call backs from his customer(cookie cutter). Thats Bloomzies part of the business. Well I'm sure the main part, I've heard he cleans buckets also.

His brain works one way for his part of the business, plus he's on the left coast. And that's the reason this topic will come up again, he's to the left of most of us.

 

[LJVF]

Hey - I'm on vacation so this reply is super brief....

1 - Our shop is not some super high-end store. We are located in an average neighborhood and stock arrangements for less than $20 in our cooler. We offer contemporary designs for under $40 but their costs and contents are conrolled by recipe.

Wikipedia's definition of cookie cutter:

A cookie cutter is a tool to cut out cookie dough in a particular shape. They are often used for seasonal occasions when well-known decorative shapes are desired, or for large batches of cookies where simplicity and uniformity are required.

I think there's a stigma attached to the term "cookie cutter" and a tendency to assume that this type of arrangement was created by the wire services.

Even Cathy's shop uses "cookie cutter" designs, but the unique part is that she molded these on her own. I think if Mr. Royer were to update his definition of "merchant florist" to present day, her shop may best fit in this category.

When production rises to a certain level, it is important that a designer is technically sound and has the ability to follow a recipe to ensure that quality is not sacrificed and time is used efficiently. From a business owners perspective, when hiring staff, sometimes it may be more profitable to sacrifice some creativeness, if this designer can follow a recipe.

Understanding lies in the answer to the question: What is the purpose of creating a "cookie cutter" or a "recipe" for flower designs?

I may be trying to apply too many business principles, I think this stems from the fact that in college I majored in business. Some of the residue of those countless courses still remain in my head. :boggles:

 

[Dee Dee]

What is the title of the book?

 

[SpringCity]

Dee, it's "Retailing Flowers Profitably"
It's interesting and also a piece of florist history because some of the info is already a bit outdated as someone said. Some of it is timeless though.

I see no problem with positioning yourself in the marketplace as a solid florist who knows how to make traditional things but can also bust out that artsy piece if needed.

I'm sure there are good designers who open shops who have no biz sense and are gonna "show everyone" how they can make high end art and nothing else.
We actually had a shop like that here, beautiful place. But it is no longer in business, oddly enough.

 

[goldfish]

Goldie, does Mr. Royer explain why he chose the "merchant niche" over the others?

From my recollection (I don't have the book here), he chose the merchant niche, because he wanted his business grow into a multi-store florist.

Cathy has developed a highly successful business, but in my opinion, very difficult for the average florist to duplicate. It takes a unique combination of artistry, business sense, hard work and organization to reach this level and maintain it. Kudos to her, and like goldie said, there's nothing wrong with that.

To be an "Artist florist", I think you need two things: talent and name recognition. Don't discount the importance of the latter (name recognition). Average consumers buy a brand name, not the art itself. Who would buy Picasso's painting if it didn't have his name on it?

Some florist might have a design talent of Avante Garden calibor, but no name recognition. Most of us have neither.

As far as I know, Cathy and her husband were already well-known when they started Avente Garden in 1984. Few of us has that kind of intangible asset to build our business on. Most of us have practically nothing to begin with.

On top of that, I (owner) am not a designer. I cannot build my business solely based on the design talent of a particular employee, however good she might be. What am I supposed to do if she leaves?

 

[Joe Mioux]

Beautiful work Shannon!

Yeah Joe, I know Twila is AIFD and I'm sure she can do creative, which is why I don't understand why selling creative arrangements is such a handicap to him. I can also understand having a different viewpoint on a subject, having a hard time understanding why anyone would continue to beat folks over the head about this unless he enjoys yanking our chain. Will have to ask Twila when she gets back, I'm sure she has an opinion.

:argue:

Here is where I think a lot of us miscommunicate.

The everyday stuff will generally outsell the artsy one-off stuff hands down every day.

A florist can have and should have and need both styles in their shops.

The last thing a flower shop owner needs is one less sale.

joe

 

[goldfish]

I tried and tried to sell the upscale flowers...I love my high end work it is what I did for 10 years. I was used to selling 100.00 arrangements everyday. I was used to people comeing into the shop and asking me to create a one of a kind work of art. I was used to people knowing flowers and art..What I did not know at the time I bought my shop was that location and demographics plays a huge role in all of that...I had no idea that an existing shop would be hard to change...These are the things you learn...

We had the same experience. There is a high-end florist about 30-min away from us (voted "best of Long Island"). Frankly, I never thought their designs are any more elegant than what we can do. The big difference is that they have a name recognition, so they can get away with premium prices.

It's the same as Bloomingdale selling a piece of jewelry for $500, - the exact same jewelry that you can buy at Costco at 1/3 of the price.

I think it just takes time to develop name recognition. Until that happens, chasing after high-end customers is simply difficult (unless, of course, you are famous to begin with - like Cahty )

 

[Tuberose]

I don't think you have to have high end, over the top, pricey designs to gain recognition, nor do I think you can build an outstanding reputation on doing only traditional cookie cutter designs. You have to send out things that make people sit up and take notice, no matter what the dollar count is. It doesn't have to be weird, just beautifully different and BETTER than the competition. There are so many beautiful colors, flowers and designs why do things the same way they were done 15 years ago?

We have a customer that every time she calls she picks something cookie cutter off the TF site, then she comes in to see it, never likes it, always picks something contemporary out of the cooler. :hammer:

Trish

 

[Flame]

Hmm this is quite interesting....but I may be out of the water here but I will say....taking the creative out of floristry means that your not a florist anymore...you would more likely to be a production line where everything is the same and nothing changes...you use the same container , the same ribbon, the same amount of foliage, the same amount of flowers and finish it off with the same typed/written card.
Obviously Ron has targeted the area that he is surrounded by and put himself into that category of the ' big shops '...GOOD ON HIM! If thats what it takes for him to survive well he is doing the right thing for his shop and for his future - What I don't understand is why is HAS TO?? Aren't florists SUPPOSED to be creative....SUPPOSED to be inspiring when you walk thru the door that you want to spend the day in there because of the atmosphere, the ambience and the feel of the shop....aren't we as florists SUPPOSED to give that customer a satisifying feeling of WOW I want to come back in here because EACH week there is something different rather than....they always have the same old stuff???
You always need your regular foundation bouquets/arrangements....I will NEVER agrue that fact...BUT what about that SPECIAL arrangement...in the middle of your shop right where the customer walks in to be greeted and there it is....in its magnificence and glory....the one arrangement that BLOWS them away...what about that???? Is that such a money waster that you couldn't POSSIBLY do this because you might lose money if it doesn't sell????? Well what about the money you would have GAINED if you did have it there??? What about the money LOST because you didn't have it for customers to google at???
Taking the creativity out of a florist means that you are taking the florist out of creativity....and that to me means we are going backwards rather than forwards!

 

[lori042499]

Hmm this is quite interesting....but I may be out of the water here but I will say....taking the creative out of floristry means that your not a florist anymore...you would more likely to be a production line where everything is the same and nothing changes...you use the same container , the same ribbon, the same amount of foliage, the same amount of flowers and finish it off with the same typed/written card.
Obviously Ron has targeted the area that he is surrounded by and put himself into that category of the ' big shops '...GOOD ON HIM! If thats what it takes for him to survive well he is doing the right thing for his shop and for his future - What I don't understand is why is HAS TO?? Aren't florists SUPPOSED to be creative....SUPPOSED to be inspiring when you walk thru the door that you want to spend the day in there because of the atmosphere, the ambience and the feel of the shop....aren't we as florists SUPPOSED to give that customer a satisifying feeling of WOW I want to come back in here because EACH week there is something different rather than....they always have the same old stuff???
You always need your regular foundation bouquets/arrangements....I will NEVER agrue that fact...BUT what about that SPECIAL arrangement...in the middle of your shop right where the customer walks in to be greeted and there it is....in its magnificence and glory....the one arrangement that BLOWS them away...what about that???? Is that such a money waster that you couldn't POSSIBLY do this because you might lose money if it doesn't sell????? Well what about the money you would have GAINED if you did have it there??? What about the money LOST because you didn't have it for customers to google at???
Taking the creativity out of a florist means that you are taking the florist out of creativity....and that to me means we are going backwards rather than forwards!

When 95% of your orders are done on the phone and the internet is it really worth making a drop dead gorgeous arrangement for the frot that will dies for 5% to see it, especially when that 5% usually only drops in to get a loose bunch and rarely ever wants an arranegement....I have plenty of silk items in my store that are done artistically to show my range of ability(not that I think silks really portray what fresh can)....Of the silk designs that I had the only nes that sold were the plain jane non-desript arrangements and none of the more adventurous ones...

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

Hmm this is quite interesting....but I may be out of the water here but I will say....taking the creative out of floristry means that your not a florist anymore...you would more likely to be a production line where everything is the same and nothing changes...you use the same container , the same ribbon, the same amount of foliage, the same amount of flowers and finish it off with the same typed/written card.
Obviously Ron has targeted the area that he is surrounded by and put himself into that category of the ' big shops '...GOOD ON HIM! If thats what it takes for him to survive well he is doing the right thing for his shop and for his future - What I don't understand is why is HAS TO?? Aren't florists SUPPOSED to be creative....SUPPOSED to be inspiring when you walk thru the door that you want to spend the day in there because of the atmosphere, the ambience and the feel of the shop....aren't we as florists SUPPOSED to give that customer a satisifying feeling of WOW I want to come back in here because EACH week there is something different rather than....they always have the same old stuff???
You always need your regular foundation bouquets/arrangements....I will NEVER agrue that fact...BUT what about that SPECIAL arrangement...in the middle of your shop right where the customer walks in to be greeted and there it is....in its magnificence and glory....the one arrangement that BLOWS them away...what about that???? Is that such a money waster that you couldn't POSSIBLY do this because you might lose money if it doesn't sell????? Well what about the money you would have GAINED if you did have it there??? What about the money LOST because you didn't have it for customers to google at???
Taking the creativity out of a florist means that you are taking the florist out of creativity....and that to me means we are going backwards rather than forwards!

Who's Ron?





RC

 

[RJD]

This means to me, there's a choice to be made, fun or profitability and longevity.

Is the choice "fun or (profitability and longevity)", or "(fun or profitability) and longevity"? Are fun and profitability mutually exclusive? If the business isn't fun (which can include counting gold), you won't do a good job at it, no matter how much you make. That is, after all, why we all own our own businesses.

Find your identity, your happy place, and get there or be there.

In the end, who will have lived a "better" life--Mother Theresa or Donald Trump?

 

[Flame]

haha sorry I meant Ken not Ron

Originally Posted by lori042499
I tried and tried to sell the upscale flowers...I love my high end work it is what I did for 10 years. I was used to selling 100.00 arrangements everyday. I was used to people comeing into the shop and asking me to create a one of a kind work of art. I was used to people knowing flowers and art..What I did not know at the time I bought my shop was that location and demographics plays a huge role in all of that...I had no idea that an existing shop would be hard to change...These are the things you learn...


Again with this....just like you said Lori....it depends on your demographic area. 95% of your business is a HUGE percentage of NON walker-iners hence the reason why in your case you would not have a spectucular arrangement in the middle of your store each week because you hardly get a customer to walk in to see it...(which is a shame really because walking into a florist can be such an experience in itself for the customer)
Its great that you have found something that works not only for yourself/shop but also for the area

But Lori because your florist is this way built up (over the phone/internet)....and I am NOT trying to be rude here....but are you a production line florist? One that does things the same way everytime and does not really get a chance to explore the beauty of being different everytime? because like you said in the end its not worth the 5% seeing it anyway...and usually with the phone/internet they are set designs and prices???

 

[lori042499]

haha sorry I meant Ken not Ron

Originally Posted by lori042499
I tried and tried to sell the upscale flowers...I love my high end work it is what I did for 10 years. I was used to selling 100.00 arrangements everyday. I was used to people comeing into the shop and asking me to create a one of a kind work of art. I was used to people knowing flowers and art..What I did not know at the time I bought my shop was that location and demographics plays a huge role in all of that...I had no idea that an existing shop would be hard to change...These are the things you learn...


Again with this....just like you said Lori....it depends on your demographic area. 95% of your business is a HUGE percentage of NON walker-iners hence the reason why in your case you would not have a spectucular arrangement in the middle of your store each week because you hardly get a customer to walk in to see it...(which is a shame really because walking into a florist can be such an experience in itself for the customer)
Its great that you have found something that works not only for yourself/shop but also for the area

But Lori because your florist is this way built up (over the phone/internet)....and I am NOT trying to be rude here....but are you a production line florist? One that does things the same way everytime and does not really get a chance to explore the beauty of being different everytime? because like you said in the end its not worth the 5% seeing it anyway...and usually with the phone/internet they are set designs and prices???

Most of what I do is recipe web or picture work....I do have my own phone customers that I can and do sell other stuff to....The phone orders are pretty much what I want to do within reason....It is hard to sell a real wacky idea on the phone but I have to gauge what they want full and round, creative and artsy, open to any, martha style, most in my area are open to anything that is full looking and not too wacky....most want a vase. Tropicals do not sell well...to weird, I always hear..I have been finding that people really like that really full, low contemporary look. What I call the martha look...nicer quality flowers low and compact in a square or cylinder vase...I find I can sell these and not get complaints for 60 and highr anything for less money and it gets too compact and all people see is small. For the smaller prices I tend to keep with a traditional mix in a vase with some air made out of standard flowers, people are generally happy with the size and the quantity of flowers this way...I also find that customers wanting to spen more than 50.00 for flowers are generally the type that buy flowers often and have a realistic veiw of what a florist does...People who spend less are more often very occasional flower buyers who may not know anything about flowers much less a design type or flower name and just need to get something sent...

As I grow, I can see the business evolving and changing ever so slowly. People are getting to know that my work is different than most(ftd round mound look for 4 of 7 florists in my town). I have gotten the average order up from 45.00 up to 65.00 in almost 3 years. The lady that had the shop before me was a standard flower queen, so until people get the word that things have changed it will be slow going...