Willingness to fill incoming orders

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I'm not feeling well so brain could perhaps not be functioning properly but Herb - in your example is their not profit in your flower (& labor which I didn't see) markup that needs to be counted?

Yes - there IS profit in the flower markup.

Assuming it is in my delivery area (within 20 min from a likely previous stop) OR in my delivery pool, Yes I would fill it. I also know I have these flowers in my cooler AND I know that I only have 12 more days before Xmas move these flowers, berries, greens, ribbon.
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The deal breaker is same day delivery. If I have missed the delivery pool or the address is 30 min away and we having nothing that way and it has to go today, I would refuse or ask if it could go tomorrow.

Very good Heather! What I didn't mention was when the order has to be delivered! That alone would be a reason for Rejection, as it could throw out any chances of making a buck on the order if you had to make a special trip out for it.
This is the first 'screen' the order goes through - can it go thru pool, or how "local" is it. All wire ins below $40 go by me first, unless a Poinsettia/Plant order. I can tell immediately wheather to keep or reject.

So Herb... thats a one sided vase design?

Yep. Easy-peasy. My 7 year old son could make these - might need help with the bow.

We have decided to take these orders, provided they can go on pool, or are in our immediate zips (no special trips), and we will mass-produce 10 of them at a time. Will sell in the cooler as well for our "low end" vase at $29.99. We have all the needed components anyway, and actually we got the Dynasty Posy vases for $.99 awhile back on sale from Pennock.

Lastly, we will make these look nice. They will be going out to recipients with all our propaganda on them. And, we'll make a couple bucks doing it.

Like Bloomzie said, you should consider ALL wire in's with a potential to make money. But, to each his own...

- H.
 
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WS membership as an "investment"

Here's how I look at it. Being a WS member means that I am investing ~$4,000 a year in a particular way of making sales.

If I am getting exactly $4,000 back, I am just at break-even. In that case, all I have done was to give a profit to WS, with no benefit to my bottom line.

My objective, therefore, is to get at least ~50% return ($6,000). In that case, $4,000 goes to WS; $2,000 goes to my bottom line. Anything less than that is really not worth in my book.

Investment objectives: short-term vs long-term

Ordinarily, a $4,000 business investment, even without any immediate return, is not always a bad investment. If you are "planting a seed" for the future, that's a good long-term investment.

In the case for $4,000 investment in WS membership, however, it must produce an immediate return, or its worth is practically zero.

Why? Because it does absolutely nothing to brand my business; so there is no "planting a seed for the future" factor here. None.

How do you calculate ROI (return on investment)?

Let's simply say this upfront.

It's hard to know how much we are getting back from this WS investment. We could have a field day debating on profitability of WS operation, and in fact we have, gazillion times here in FC.

What is not in dispute (well, to most people anyway) is that,
a) if your labor cost is fixed and
b) if the number of incoming orders is not overwhelming,​
there is a small contribution margin to be made in incoming orders.

That margin is usually in the range of 25-30%, as opposed to 60-65% for local orders.

What does it mean? It means that, since I am investing $4,000 a year, to just break even, I should get approximately $13,000-16,000 incoming orders a year ($1,000-1,300 a month).

Recall here that, if I am merely at break even, I got nothing in return. To get a 50% return (my goal), I need $20-24K wire-ins a year (~$2,000 a month). Anything less than that is really not worth IMO, considering all the headaches my employees and I suffer from filling WS orders.

Also note that this "calculation" doesn't consider our labor cost. This is a reasonable assumption for us, because our shop has an excess production capacity (i.e., workers at idle). Most florists do.

Issues on WS-dependency

Finally, if your shop is dependent on incoming orders (>40% sales), you are playing a whole different game.

As an investment, you are putting a large portion of your money in a single basket, the basket which you ultimately has no control over. It's a risky position to take.

When I took over the operation of our shop, that was exactly the situation we were in. About 50% of our sales were wire-ins; now it's less than 20%.

If you would like to get out of WS dependency, here's a couple of things that we've done.

First, analyze each WS separately if you have multiple WS's. Consider dropping a WS that's not performing well (break-even or less). If you say you are dropping, they will always try to keep you by reducing monthly fees. Re-calculate if that makes your operation profitable. Usually not.

Second, if you have only a small number of outgoing orders, consider consolidating all of them into a single WS channel. This way, you won't get slapped by "reciprocity fee" and "low-sending fee" by at least one WS.

Third, if you are listed in multiple cities (ASB, "Also served by"), analyze the return on investment for each city you are listed. If the listing fee is $8 a month (I'm not certain of this), you would need at least ~$40 additional sale per month for that city to justify ASB. "Additional" is a keyword here. If my hunch is correct, you should remove all of ASB. Even if you remove your shop from a particular town, you will still get orders going to that town.

Fourth, if you have any ads listed in Directory, I think you should remove them all. A simple rule here is that, for x-$ amount of WS ad, you need 4-5 times x $ amount of additional sales to justify it.

Fifth, most important, you should re-invest the money saved by doing #1-4. If you don't, there's no chance that your shop will grow. Where should we invest?

I don't know a general answer to that. In our case, we have invested heavily (and still do) on quality and quantity of flowers we use for arrangements. Wise investment? I don't know. We will see.

You could also consider local campaign. Things like freebies, for example. Organizing a design class for local people. Etc, etc. "Planting a seed for the future" is a key.

There's no guarantee that it will work. But if you don't plant a seed, there will be nothing to harvest in the future.
 
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most excellent analysis Goldie.
 
Execllent summation Goldie.
In the years past, I made money belonging to three WS's..yes, we did just based on sheer volume alone. We had the product, no extra design time, trucks going there anyway etc. It added to the local order base. Now what I am seeing is that the local order base is way down, from everyday to sympathy, party work to weddings etcs, coupled with incomings as well from the WS's. So it is time to trim them down. It is the first thing that we will do in January and it won't make a diff on what they offer for "free" ...and they always do. The business of them increasing fees like TF has done and I am sure FTD will follow is just to over the top for me to accept with the economy the way it is.
At some point we might all use one person to handle our wire outs for our locals and eliminate the WS completely...when you add the rebates, the 20% agasinst the fees, it is not even a break even anymore
Thanks for the great summation....everyone should read it twice!
Sher
 
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I agree and i'm glad. Especially at mother's day, i don't know how many la di da shops i sent orders to that couldn't deal with a dozen carns in a vase or something equally benign for under $50 plus delivery
 
If you think the Bush economy is bad--just wait a while.


I think he meant ....wait until obama

Wait til Obama what? Tries to straighten out the mess he inherited from the Bush/Cheney crime cartel of bumbling idiots?

Don't be holding your breath.

Naw we're far from seeing the end of the damage Dumbo did to our country.

Our Grandchildren will be paying for this.
 
Bloomz, I don't suppose it would do any good to mention that the democrats initially caused this--Bill Clinton, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and their foray into affordable housing. Then the greedy guys took it from there (the wall street types, Freddy and Fanny, the mortgage companies) and finally, the republicans decided there was too much regulation of the greedy guys.

There's plenty of blame to go around. I assume you know that.
 
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Wait til Obama what? Tries to straighten out the mess he inherited from the Bush/Cheney crime cartel of bumbling idiots?

Don't be holding your breath.

Naw we're far from seeing the end of the damage Dumbo did to our country.

Our Grandchildren will be paying for this.

Bloomz, I don't suppose it would do any good to mention that the democrats initially caused this--Bill Clinton, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and their foray into affordable housing. Then the greedy guys took it from there (the wall street types, Freddy and Fanny, the mortgage companies) and finally, the republicans decided there was too much regulation of the greedy guys.

There's plenty of blame to go around. I assume you know that.

The D's generally want more govt involvement in our lives

The R's (specifically the Conservatives) have traditionally wanted less govt in our lives.

Yea some of this economic downturn can be blamed on govt, but lets hope we never get to the point where our govt controls the economy.

Truth be told, the blame lies with us, every citizen that overspent, overborrowed, and undersaved.

As a former market analyst, we have just witnessed a classic Bull market followed by a Bear Market.

that is a long time increase followed by a dramatic drop.

We can also see the same example in the Oil Markets. It took four years to get oil up to $150 barrel but only a couple months to see it drop back down to under $40.

The smart money in futures trading is to catch those bear markets.

joe
 
176 discounted orders refused as of 4:34pm yesterday.
134 accepted at an average value exceeding $65.00.
$2,600 in additional demanded delivery fees locked in.
800 has been off for two days, TF OG's are scrambling and the other one is not too far behind.
Lots of west coast orders coming in under 40.00. All gone ! First time that has ever happened !
TF/FU Flowers seems to be heavier than I've ever seen before. ????????????

And so on............
 
176 discounted orders refused as of 4:34pm yesterday.
134 accepted at an average value exceeding $65.00.
$2,600 in additional demanded delivery fees locked in.
800 has been off for two days, TF OG's are scrambling and the other one is not too far behind.
Lots of west coast orders coming in under 40.00. All gone ! First time that has ever happened !
TF/FU Flowers seems to be heavier than I've ever seen before. ????????????

And so on............

Rather than spend so much time refusing more than half of your orders, why not just set your minimum at $65, instead of $45?
 
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Ah , the 30.01 order , yup got plenty of those. No matter what the min, the orders still come through.
Heather, fortunately the numbers represent about a 1/4 of our orders as of yesterday.

As of 10:30 tonight we've decided to shut down to all except walk in and call in, with few exceptions approved by me alone.
I could still run well through tomorrow , but this holiday prefer to walk through and maybe make some time for the important things.
 
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Min's

Before we left TF, we repeatedly received orders below our minimums so I don't believe setting it at any minimum level really makes a difference. They still arrived at $30.01 no matter what we listed.

Not sure if FTD's system blocks incomings below codifications.


Not judging by what I've seen !:hammer:
 
TF/FU Flowers seems to be heavier than I've ever seen before. ????????????

And so on............

They are a pretty incredible marketing machine - I placed a dummy order on their site one night and now I get lots of very low cost emails, very very nicely done with very enticing offers I don't know how they get filled unless they are sending their service charge along with every one of them. I mean they're $10 off their already below srp pricing.

And - I think they have possibly the nicest web site on the net.

Yeah I study these guys.....
 
Bloomz, I don't suppose it would do any good to mention that the democrats initially caused this--Bill Clinton, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and their foray into affordable housing. Then the greedy guys took it from there (the wall street types, Freddy and Fanny, the mortgage companies) and finally, the republicans decided there was too much regulation of the greedy guys.

There's plenty of blame to go around. I assume you know that.

No it wouldn't Ted.

The buck stops at the people who were supposed to be in charge but were off playing cowboys in 10 gallon hats with pint sized brains.

And, they blew what they had when they came into office and then some.

Who initially may have "caused" this isn't as important as steps not being taken to prevent it.

You know, like being warned Bin Laden was planning to attack the US with airplanes and ignoring that warning too?

This level of incompetence I do believe has no precedent. At least not in my lifetime.

And yes, this all ties in with willingness to fill more incoming.

I rejected (forwarded) one order today. Only one - the others I am willingly and happily filling. A buck's a buck when their ain't that many of them around.
 
We raised our minimum earlier in the year and spent a few months rejecting the orders below what we asked, I don't think we have gotten one this last week that was below our minimum. We also ran out of Kincaids and after trying to get them to let us substitute, which they canceled, they quit sending us orders for them. Things went pretty smooth after that.

Trish
 
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