a bit of good news from FTD - controversy invited

[Bigted]

It seems to me that there was a discussion here long ago by florists who deliberately hold orders until the last minute or past the delivery time to reject. That's bull and it hurts our industry.

On the other side, we are another shop that only rejects an order once. If your computer system sends it right back to us, it goes in the "to be resolved" pile and I am not going to pay a penalty for that.

 

[sfox]

Hey wait a minute

Why should the filling florist pay again for even 1-800TFTD mistakes?

Those same compagnies brought that on themselves when they signed up any tom , dick or harry. If FTD kept the quality assurance in signing up shops they would have not any problem.
I see this as another way to get more money.
I thought quality assurance is to cover things like that.

SO Like I said...we are already paying a feee for this service.
Luc

Hey, wait a minute Luc. Where do you get off wanting money collected for "quality assurance" be spent on "quality assurance"! No corporation in their right mind would give up a nice steady souce of profit and instead use it for the benefit of their consumers and trade customers. The present "quality assurance" fee is being used to make Wall Street happy. Why would FTD use that money to make "Main Street" happy?

Get with the program there fella!

Man, it's got to be great to be FTD! lollollol

 

[CHR]

So who's gonna pay from a problem like this lady's? And whose fault is it?

Here's the product - http://www.ftd.com/12265/catalog/pr...gn_id=froogle_HSH&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=0HSH

Here's the complaint:

February 26, 2008 I ordered flowers to be sent to my son in Florida as a congratulations for purchasing his first home. He sent me a picture of what he received and it was NOT what I ordered. I contacted FTD and they told me they had a 100% satisfaction guarantee and would take care of the problem. A new delivery was made and this time the order was even worse, not even close to what I ordered. I sent a picture of the flowers to FTD and to my surprise they called me on the phone, apologized for the mix up and said a representative would be in contact with me the following Monday, which would have been MARCH 17, 2008...yeah, it was really taking this long. Needless to say, I have still not heard back from them and any emails I send are ignored. I will NEVER do business with them again and would NEVER recommend them to anyone. I was so disappointed and disgusted and what's even worse, my son still doesn't have his "Home Sweet Home" planter that I ordered!

It's clear that the florist(s) did not carry that container and didn't have 2 4" azaleas. Did FTD give the florist(s) the same buried info they gave the shopper in the small print about substitutions?

-For green and blooming plants, similar plants may be substituted of equal or greater value.
-If the plant container shown online is not available, a similar container will be used.

Consumers don't care about substitution clauses, they just want what they see.

This complaint looks to be entirely FTD-made - yet now they want some poor florists to pay for their bad corporate policies.

Pardon me if I believe the majority of complaints on WSs are as a result of bad selling and not bad filling.

 

[Twila]

Think about it. How many "real" florists send "unfillable" underpriced orders. I really only see this benefitting "ogs". Besides, where in this policy does it mention the benefit to the consumer? They're only concern is their product is delivered on the right date and for their preceived value of it.

There are plenty of "REAL" florists that do this. Maybe we should say that not only are they real florists without a clue, but they are just doing what they are doing day after day in their stores. They are so used to selling and delivering flowers that are underpriced to their own customers in their towns, that they try to send the same amount on when those same customers try to wire flowers. They just don't know any better. I think this is very sad. They THINK that they are providing good service to their customers. We have learned over the years to try to promote the higher $$ orders so that the sender will be represented well. Let's face it, none of us came into the business knowing how to sell the right amount. Most of us sold out of our own pockets at first. In my opinion, most of these small orders, come from either new florists, or from shops out of small towns.

For example: recently I spent some time with several florists at a TF program. I had a chance to talk "shop" with one in particular. Her shop is in a very small town, delivery fee is $3.00 and will sometimes deliver arrangements 45 minutes away!!! She told me how she will call upon several people to make these detailed deliveries..very creative I might add. She will use the Deli delivery person, the Hardware guy, and others, as well as her own delivery person. The advantage of Small Town USA, I guess. At Valentine's Day Flowers Sent Today gave her a complicated order going 45 minutes away. Anyway, many details for delivery, yada yada. The woman did recieve a very nice arrangement of roses. The next day, my friend recieved a call from Flowers Sent Today saying that they were refusing to pay because woman called to complain "Her flowers came in a box". (it was the delivery box). Luckily, she didn't back down, but it took over a week to resolve that she would not be eating this order. It never even occured to this woman that she could refuse to take this orderin the first place!!! :wallhead:

 

[LJVF]

If an order can't be filled it must be rejected within 2 hours. If not they will be fined $10.

We always reject or forward an order within reasonable time and I can't understand why other shops don't do this. During holidays, if we are so overwhelmed and it gets to a point where we can't check on an order that's been sitting there for 2 hours, we really shouldn't be accepting anymore wire in's. At that point it's time to suspend. With that said the 2 hour rule seems to be a bit narrow and vague. This rule needs to be tweaked.

24 hours the fine will go to $20.

I agree with this one.

Reject after delivery date and they will be fined double the cost of the order.

I agree with this. Anyways, doesn't the sending shop usually CAN the order?

This money will not line FTD's pockets (except for their own gazillion orders) but will go back to the sending shop.

In the case of non delivery after delivery date the double cost is to cover giving back the customers money and still sending their flowers for them, a very good practice to help retain customers.

I agree with these rules to a point; there should be some exceptions.
For example:

1) No penalty if sending shop provided wrong address
2) No penalty if recipient is out of town
3) No penalty if recipient is in ICU
4) Rule adjusted if order comes in during off hours
5) Etc... any other scenarios that could be loopholes

I pretty much agree with Bloomz. However, I would like to see the official rules with my own eyes before I make any harsh judgements. I'm gonna try to let this one marinate for a while.

 

[cherrie]

I also disagree.

I am totally responsible to my clients and to those shops that send me orders.
What about the orders FTD.com sends that has 8 lavender roses and 6-8 stems of lavender alstro and sends out or a whooping total of $29.99.

My minimums are clearly posted. Who is responsible for that order sent to me????
I am sick of rejecting orders. I'm sick of wasting paper and ink.
I have threatened to quit FTD about 6 times. It's done deal after MD, Wish I had done it before.

I have another one. Two weeks ago a shop sent me a FTD order for April 23 - Admin's Day- where they requested that we call first and arrange a delivery time that day for the recipient - who was about 8 miles away.
There was no way I could accommodate such a special request like that on such a busy day for a ttl of $43.00. Sorry, I can no longer make special trips with the cost of gas that it is. I go to one part of town, once a day. Except for funerals. I try hard to work out the linguistics.
I rejected the order at 9:03 am on the Sunday before - order was for Wednesday. On Tuesday, the shop sent me a very nasty note, saying that it was totally unprofessional of me to reject this order the day before the delivery date - "not good business". I had the paperwork in hand and offered to fax it to them. FTD held the transmittal of the refusal in their system. Much of FTD's hardware is totally antiquated.

Also, there are times when you receive a special order a couple of days a head and try to get the product - then can't. So, if the order is not rejected with in two hours - you're fined???????

I'll be rejecting many, many, many orders.
But, not to worry, I'll be done with FTD.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

when an OG "fills" orders for ME, I'll "treat" them as equally important as ANY REAL FLORIST!
When an OG sends an underpriced order, and they KNOW IT, it'll have to wait until MY customers are looked after FIRST.....
I challenged one this morning.....asked them" what the HE** they were thinking (oxymoron), sending me an order that's underpriced EVEN FROM their OWN SRP's!!
JB......the "great news" is that REAL FLORISTS are challenging the status quo, and doing a great job for OG's is the WORST THING a REAL FLORIST could do!!
They WON'T get "the chance" to "fine" as many shops as they "think"!!
Having "said" all that, the shakedown continues, and IF the OG's think they can strip value from orders, and then point fingers, this last ditch effort to strike fear into our hearts, WILL NOT WORK!!
When the gander AND the goose swim IN the same pond, the "shyte" STILL goes to the bottom, and the OG's are like the "carp" at the bottom, just waiting...DON'T feed them, they DIE!!
STOOPID shop owners are well, stoopid, and are dying off!!

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

FURTHER to this, I have a PRIME EXAMPLE!!

.COM sends us an order at 4:19 pm on Friday May 2nd, for delivery way out of our normal delivery area, HOWEVER, we CAN make exceptions...a 45 minute drive, ONE WAY CANNOT be done for $9.95.
Send an "ask", at 5:10 PM....price change, allowing for a $19.95 delivery charge.....and it's now SATURDAY MAY 3rd, 1:57 PM, and NO REPLY!!
I WANT MY "FINE" MONEY NOW...
better look in your OWN cauldron first!!

 

[bloomz]

They couldn't give a good poopie if they are quality florists or not. The dollar bills look the same to them even if Bigfoot designed and delivered the flowers. They just brainstormed an idea to get the real florists to pay for their business design flaws.

Is it possible they figured out that is part of the problem and this will indeed have a weeding out effect? If so, bravo.

But sure they care about getting their orders (and ours on their coattails) filled by quality florists - that's simply about reduced churn rate and customer retention and I know they ain't turning their back on that.

Hey, wait a minute Luc. Where do you get off wanting money collected for "quality assurance" be spent on "quality assurance"! No corporation in their right mind would give up a nice steady souce of profit and instead use it for the benefit of their consumers and trade customers. The present "quality assurance" fee is being used to make Wall Street happy. Why would FTD use that money to make "Main Street" happy?

I got a good guess on that Fox - in the past they have absorbed dispute charges - I know when I have had to complain vehemently about bad quality or unprofessionalism and demand another order - I've asked that the fumbling shop be billed for it, and they told me they didn't do it that way - they have a "fund" (QA) they use to pay for the orders themselves. This way they'll get to quit dipping into that QA fund and can keep it for bonuses for company bigwigs.

Also in the past we've also had a fund that has been dipped into many times myself for these very reasons - it's called our bottom line. I'd rather keep that for bigwig (me and 2yla) bonuses too.

They WON'T get "the chance" to "fine" as many shops as they "think"!!
Having "said" all that, the shakedown continues, and IF the OG's think they can strip value from orders, and then point fingers, this last ditch effort to strike fear into our hearts, WILL NOT WORK!!

STOOPID shop owners are well, stoopid, and are dying off!!

And that's a good thing, sez Martha.

The bottom line is that most real florists who operate as a "business" will not be effected by this other than being reimbursed for what we are paying out of our own pocket now for excellent customer service. If FTD takes a cut of the $$ they will doom the plan before it starts. I already pay membership fees and QA fees.

absolutely correct - this is only going to penalize unprofessional florists.

As mentioned in this thread, some don't have time to handle rejects timely. They either need to hire more staff or quit the wire service, cuz it goes with the territory.

This seems to me to be about adding back in some quality to the network. Undervalued orders? Who's finger is on the reject button? If an order is skimmed who's responsibility is it to say no? I triage all incoming, it's not that difficult, way easier than losing money on filling something that isn't worth it. And I FOR or REJ asap.

All those things about OG mistakes (addresses, skim, etc) are true, but that still doesn't discount the possible effectness and benefits of this part of it.

There's a bunch of housecleaning to be done - let's start in the kitchen.

 

[theRKF]

I really don't see a problem with this program.

FTD is implementing penalties designed to attack specific acknowledged behaviours that negatively impact the quality of a customer's experience.

The new rules are not comprehensive - they don't cover every conceivable problem. Rather than think of scenarios outside the scope these rules are designed to address, shouldn't we at least be happy FTD is doing something to address one aspect of product quality?

Ryan

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

shouldn't we at least be happy FTD is doing something to address one aspect of product quality?

Ryan

Before they start "addressing" this aspect, they'd be very wise to look at their own failings, THEN they can "earn" the respect that they've completely ignored!!

 

[Tracy D'Amico]

. Rather than think of scenarios outside the scope these rules are designed to address, shouldn't we at least be happy FTD is doing something to address one aspect of product quality?

::BS No way no how it has as much to do with customer satisfaction, or quality of florists as it has to do with cash. It's $$, plain and simple. Funnelling more $$ away from florists, possibly eliminating FWOACs, but more likely punishing other good shops in the process. Good shops getting caught like dolphins in the shrimp net.

There are too many scenarios outside the scope, thereby making the idea meaningless.

 

[bloomz]

::BS but more likely punishing other good shops in the process. Good shops getting caught like dolphins in the shrimp net.

I'm perplexed

Why and how would a good shop be punished? I anticipate this having zero negative impact on my business. And I see this as having everything to do with customer satisfaction. Remember, the claim is they are not keeping the money but returning it to the sending shop.

we very rarely get a complaint on a local order and we don't get that many on wireouts (thanks to our golden preferred list) but when we do - we often have to eat that loss, as well as the loss of the customer.


::BSon the ::BSflag? LOL

 

[theRKF]

I disagree - the penalty goes to the sending shop, not to FTD's pocket. At its base it's probably about passifying angry large sending shops po'd with the quality of work and lack of professionalism from a number of fillers (we've had plenty of rants on hear from real florists about other shops who REJ late, don't have ink/paper in their printers, etc. Let's not pretend this is about OGs only).

Ryan

 

[inferno63]

::BS No way no how it has as much to do with customer satisfaction, or quality of florists as it has to do with cash. It's $$, plain and simple. Funnelling more $$ away from florists, possibly eliminating FWOACs, but more likely punishing other good shops in the process. Good shops getting caught like dolphins in the shrimp net.

There are too many scenarios outside the scope, thereby making the idea meaningless.

I don't understand why others don't get this?! Any, and I mean absolutely any, customer dissatisfaction that a WS (or OG) receives is absolutely their fault! If their members are not living up to the standards they expect then get rid of that member. If the members are rejecting, shorting, substituting, or sending dead flowers that means those members are not able to (or not willing to) fill the WS orders for the money they are receiving (or in most cases NOT receiving). If the florists were making a FAIR profit for filling orders they all would be doing back flips to keep FTD happy and to stay a member of their precious organization. The old adage is true....you get what you pay for! If FTD dips further into the real florists margins then it will backfire. They will get even worse quality and worse delivery and even further burn their bridges.

Let's hear a hooray for Tracypieface!

 

[theRKF]

Now it's my turn to call "BS"

Seriously, do you think unprofessionalism is a new phenomenon in the floral trade? I've only been paying attention for 15 years or so, but I can remember working as a teenager and dealing with shops weekly who didn't have someone on hand to work the merc/dove, or just lost an order, or etc, etc, etc ... The purge Bloomz is calling for is well overdue. If this new set of penalties helps to rid the industry of a few bottom-feeders who rely on incoming to operate their business AND lack the business sense to operate in a professional manner (it's the combination of the two that's deadly) then bless FTD for doing it.

On another thread people are hollering for standards and licensing. How about we start by dealing with our obligations on orders we receive through a membership we opt into? Call it baby steps ...

Ryan

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

I'm perplexed

Why and how would a good shop be punished? I anticipate this having zero negative impact on my business. And I see this as having everything to do with customer satisfaction. Remember, the claim is they are not keeping the money but returning it to the sending shop.

we very rarely get a complaint on a local order and we don't get that many on wireouts (thanks to our golden preferred list) but when we do - we often have to eat that loss, as well as the loss of the customer.


::BSon the ::BSflag? LOL

ya wanna bet??.......the very best shops, also will NOT skate on this thin ice, neither will you!!

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

How about we start by dealing with our obligations on orders we receive through a membership we opt into? Call it baby steps ...

Ryan

how about we oblige to be there, for many "tomorrows" without their theft of those little withdrawls from orders sent us!!, that we became members of, to MAKE money, and NOT lose it...(everyone take a deep breathe)
baby steps, what, by a gorilla??

 

[Tracy D'Amico]

I'm perplexed

Why and how would a good shop be punished? I anticipate this having zero negative impact on my business. And I see this as having everything to do with customer satisfaction.::BSon the ::BSflag? LOL

There have already been numerous instances posted about, where the non-delivery or "late" reject can not necessarily be attributed to a receiving florist. Unless I'm misunderstanding, this is a blanket charge for late rejects, without exceptions. I'm sure there could be disputes, with penalties being reversed in extenuating circumstances blah blah blah. The reality is that a good shop WILL end up getting the shaft for late rejects that may not even be a case of it being their "fault" - supplier failure, wrong addresses, hospital recips in ICU, lots and lots of choices. Most shops do not have an IT person, someone whose sole job it is to sit at the desk and filter orders. This does NOT make them a "mediocre" shop, or FWOAC.

I disagree - the penalty goes to the sending shop, not to FTD's pocket. At its base it's probably about passifying angry large sending shops po'd with the quality of work and lack of professionalism from a number of fillers (we've had plenty of rants on hear from real florists about other shops who REJ late, don't have ink/paper in their printers, etc. Let's not pretend this is about OGs only).

Ryan

Fabulous! More money for sending. It's not about OG's only - sending shops orders with incomplete info, or inaccurate info, or any of a hundred situations .... and the receiving shop pays for rejecting an order "too late"? I'd also like to know how speedily disputes will be handled - like CC disputes, with burden on the receiving end? Good luck trying to get your $$ back if you were NOT in the wrong, and had your account penalized that $20

I see a potential benefit for consumers, but see too many instances where this will not be able to be enforced, and should not be enforced. It's all sounding a little too much like Martha/800 for me.

 

[LJVF]

I don't understand why others don't get this?! Any, and I mean absolutely any, customer dissatisfaction that a WS (or OG) receives is absolutely their fault! If their members are not living up to the standards they expect then get rid of that member. If the members are rejecting, shorting, substituting, or sending dead flowers that means those members are not able to (or not willing to) fill the WS orders for the money they are receiving (or in most cases NOT receiving). If the florists were making a FAIR profit for filling orders they all would be doing back flips to keep FTD happy and to stay a member of their precious organization. The old adage is true....you get what you pay for! If FTD dips further into the real florists margins then it will backfire. They will get even worse quality and worse delivery and even further burn their bridges.

Let's hear a hooray for Tracypieface!

I can understand Tracypieface's point, but am having trouble grasping yours.

Any, and I mean absolutely any, customer dissatisfaction that a WS (or OG) receives is absolutely their fault!

Are you saying that it's always the WS or OG fault and never the "real" florist for screwing an order up?

If the members are rejecting, shorting, substituting, or sending dead flowers that means those members are not able to (or not willing to) fill the WS orders for the money they are receiving (or in most cases NOT receiving). If the florists were making a FAIR profit for filling orders they all would be doing back flips to keep FTD happy and to stay a member of their precious organization

If a florist practices "shorting" or "sending dead flowers", that florist should be held accountable. Why would any florist send out a bad product with their name on it? If a florist doesn't want to fill the order, I don't understand what's so difficult about rejecting within a reasonable time.

If I read your post wrong, my apologies, please clue me in.