Dept of Health and cake flowers

[Rhonda]

Didn't know where to put this BUT here's the scenario...
Last year June 2008, the Maine Department of Health and Human Services sent notices to all cake bakers, caterers, and more (I don't have the letter in front of me) but was not sent to the florists like it was supposed to.
Basically the letter stated no flowers were to be used on, in, near any food for a catered affair or non-catered affair. It cited possible allergies, contaminants (pesticides) etc. It also stated use only "licensed" suppliers but did not mention florists. This has caused quite a stir as some members of MSF&GA have questioned the Dept. of Health to produce a list of "approved suppliers of flowers to be used with foods". They can not produce one. When a contact in the D of H was questioned regarding no flowers on buffet tables, guest tables, any table or place where food is present, they stated "any part of a flower could fall into the food". When asked if a flower could be taped and inserted into a cake the answer was "no a petal could fall".

SAF has been notified of this situation and has not responded (as usual - I've sent them 3 emails from MSF&GA regarding "membership" and also questioning this issue - no responses at all)
Do any of your states/provinces have any edicts like this from the Dept. of Health regarding flowers and food? This basically tells restaurants they can't put flowers on their tables either as I take it. It means flowers are not allowed anywhere the public is involved with food.
We are trying to get clarifications to no avail and some florists are getting copies of the letters from cake bakers etc regarding this "rule". Any help would be appreciated..

 

[Patty]

OMG That's just crazy! I don't know how you would address that . . .laws can be challenged through established avenues, but health department rulings?? I don't have a clue.
SAF should be your body guard here, but apparently not stepping up.
Maybe a personal call to them? Would WFFSA have anything to contribute?

Does that mean no exterminators in the kitchens? No Clorox in the rinse water? No ice in the glasses--someone might choke! ARGGH.

I'll bet you are fit to be tied. Heck, we eat flowers and moss all the time and they don't hurt us!

 

[Rhonda]

OMG That's just crazy! I don't know how you would address that . . .laws can be challenged through established avenues, but health department rulings?? I don't have a clue.
SAF should be your body guard here, but apparently not stepping up.
Maybe a personal call to them? Would WFFSA have anything to contribute?

Does that mean no exterminators in the kitchens? No Clorox in the rinse water? No ice in the glasses--someone might choke! ARGGH.

I'll bet you are fit to be tied. Heck, we eat flowers and moss all the time and they don't hurt us!

Exactly some of the points made to the D of H by some florists' questioning this "edict" (so far not a law, we'd lobby that wholeheartedly)

 

[crazy daisy]

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard...and I've owned restaurants and dealt with the Health Dept. often. In VA and SC, fresh flowers around food isn't an issue, thank God!

I'd want the HD to come up with PROOF that flowers on cakes, reception tables and buffet tables have actually caused great harm to people. All it is is another way that the government can regulate till they strangulate. Unbelievable!

 

[Carol Bice]

All it is is another way that the government can regulate till they strangulate. Unbelievable!

You nailed it.

Carol Bice

 

[crazy daisy]

This thing has the potential to be devastating to florists. If the Main HD approves this piece of crapolla, other state's HD's may try and adopt it too. This issue needs to be addressed immediately and with full force!

Rhonda, let me know if I can help in any way. uBloom has over 3,600 members that I can rally if necessary.

 

[Rhonda]

My words to the board was if they were members of SAF to go to the forums and get it in the open..... get some discussion going on it and maybe SAF would take note. Also I said I'd bring it here to see if anyone else has dealt with it and any suggestions to fight it (GROWERS???? WHOLESALERS????) and to back up any facts we can provide to the Dept of Health.

 

[CHR]

They're way more likely to get sick from a being near a food server than from any nearby flowers.

Rhonda, can you ask them how many reports of illness due to flower-borne agents have been reported to the state and over what period?

This sounds like a made-by-bureaucracy-for-bureaucracy issue.

 

[Rhonda]

They had none.......this is what perturbed us the most.
Our hands are tied at the moment.....

 

[Rhonda]

finally, here is a copy of the letter:

To: Commercial Bakeries, Home Food Processors, Eating Establishments and Commercial Florists



From: Maine Department of Agriculture and Maine Department of Health and Human Services, Maine CDC



Subject: Cut Flowers intended to be used on or in contact with food.



We understand that some bakers of wedding and special occasion cakes, caterers, and floral shops are using cut fresh flowers as decoration on cakes. We are concerned that this practice albeit beautiful to look at, may inadvertently pose a potential public health risk. We understand that local commercial florists provide the flowers for these decorations. Under the Maine Food Code, administered by the Department of Agriculture and the Department of Health and Human Services, Maine CDC to insure food safety, local commercial florists are not considered approved food sources which means that we cannot assure that cut flowers provided by commercial florists are grown and harvested according to recognized public health standards.



We understand that these flowers can originate from other countries. In many cases we do not know the types of fertilizers, pesticides, and post harvest treatments used to preserve these flowers nor do we know if these flowers were ever intended for use on food items or in and around food preparation areas.



The addition of these flowers may provide a potential for adulteration of food items (wedding and special occasion cakes) potentially posing a serious public health risk from exposure to unknown chemicals, pathogens and insects. Please be advised per the Maine Food Code, section 3-201.11(A) states, “Food shall be obtained from sources that comply with Law” and section 3-101.11 states, “Food shall be safe, unadulterated, and honestly presented.”



Flowers used on or in food items must be obtained from an approved supplier such as a food distributor that is duly licensed or permitted and can assure they were grown using acceptable Good Agricultural Practices, and are safe for human food and/or food contact.



We respectfully ask that you immediately stop using cut flowers purchased from local florists for uses on cakes or in foods unless you can assure that the flowers have come from a safe source.



If you have further questions or concerns regarding this issue, please contact Steve Giguere, Department of Agriculture at 287-4456 or Lisa Brown, Department of Health and Human Services, Maine CDC at 287-5691.



Sincerely,



Steve Giguere Lisa Brown

Compliance Supervisor Program Director

Division of Quality Assurance & Regulation Health Inspection Program

Maine Department of Agriculture Maine CDC, Department of Health and Human Services



Cc: Consumer Protection Inspectors

District Health Inspectors

Hal Prince, Division Director of Quality Assurance & Regulations

Nancy Beardsley, Division Director of Environmental Health

Dora Mills, MD MPH Public Health Director, Maine CDC

and there you go........
the company "Sysco" supplies flowers to many restaurants etc and are procured from many of the same sources as "local florists"....again there is no response from the Dept of Health from local florists questioning this edict.

 

[Patty]

We understand that some bakers of wedding and special occasion cakes, caterers, and floral shops are using cut fresh flowers as decoration on cakes.


We respectfully ask that you immediately stop using cut flowers purchased from local florists for uses on cakes or in foods unless you can assure that the flowers have come from a safe source.



It sounds like cake flowers and plate garnishes are the target. While it's still ridiculous, it doesn't seem to include centerpieces. It appears the direct food contact issue is the focus. If some overzealous bureaucrat interprets that to mean centerpieces and buffet pieces, you may have an argument.

 

[Erlene]

The irony is every baker I've spoken with about the letter says they're ignoring it and putting the flowers provided by a florist on anyway.

I just list them as loose flowers on the estimate for the most part and get the baker to deal with decorating rather than do it myself.

 

[BOSS]

What letter? I didn't get no steenkin letter!

IMO... the flowers stay on the cake...even if I have to stand there and tell the MIL how to do it!

 

[sandytf]

I'm glad this came up. I have had this battle within my company for a few years. At one point a while back, someone from our bakery/food service/catering dept. actually sought out a health official and asked about flowers on wedding cakes. The answer was they would not recommend it. So....ever since then the "rule" has been no flowers on our wedding cakes!! I pretty much told them this was ridiculous and that we would be losing plenty of business because of it. I called other area florists and bakeries and asked if they had ever heard of it or been told not to use fresh flowers and not one had ever been told not to use fresh flowers.

It has caused some confrontation between our floral depts. and our bakery depts because the bakery is telling brides "no" and our designers aren't. So far, the best compromise has been that we use a small piece of saran wrap at the base of the flower stem when putting loose flowers on cakes (and rinsing the outer petals with water first).

I also coudn't find any actual case of a person getting ill from flowers on a cake or near their food as a garnish. We have ignored it for the most part, but this is distressing that in Maine they have actually sent out a letter. I will contact SAF and ask that they fight this too. Maybe if they get mobbed with emails and calls they will take some action.

 

[RWK]

I have ran into this to, and you know what I did. I used things like spray paint can tops, champagne glasses, edible flowers bought from restaurant suppliers, arrangements with the cake sitting on pillars and the flowers underneath.....etc,. ....my point being........In this age of over-zealous bureaucrats......just go with the flow and figure out ways around it.

[EDIT: In fact, the prettiest setting I ever, ever, ever saw for a brides' cake was on a 60 inch round table. The cake's largest tier was on the edge of the table and as each tier got smaller, it spiraled around to the center in a spiral stair fashion. The tabletop was covered in a garden of flowers.......It was an incredibly beautiful tableau.

 

[Lizi]

Why, flowers have been used around food for hundreds of years, and I can't remember hearing about anyone catching a disease or dying from flowers at an event. I guess next they will want the traditional Thanksgiving center piece to be removed from the table. This is the most stupid thing I have ever heard of. SAF should go to bat for these florist before this things becomes an issue other States.

 

[Connie]

We respectfully ask that you immediately stop using cut flowers purchased from local florists for uses on cakes or in foods unless you can assure that the flowers have come from a safe source.



and there you go........
the company "Sysco" supplies flowers to many restaurants etc and are procured from many of the same sources as "local florists"....again there is no response from the Dept of Health from local florists questioning this edict.

Very disturbing, especially the emphasis on not using flowers from local florists. Why do we always get singled out? How about roadside vendors? Farmer's markets? Produce stands? Grocery stores?

Hey! Bright spot maybe!! What about grocery stores and their floral departments?

That letter is a bummer.

I know that I've not answered your question, Rhonda, but wanted to express my dismay at this edict.

 

[Lizi]

Very disturbing, especially the emphasis on not using flowers from local florists. Why do we always get singled out? How about roadside vendors? Farmer's markets? Produce stands? Grocery stores?

Hey! Bright spot maybe!! What about grocery stores and their floral departments?

That letter is a bummer.

I know that I've not answered your question, Rhonda, but wanted to express my dismay at this edict.

Hey! Bright spot maybe!! What about grocery stores and their floral departments?

We have already asked that question here in our town. According to the DOH, there is nothing wrong with fresh flowers or plants being in the produce department.

Oh well, we tried.

 

[crazy daisy]

We understand that some bakers of wedding and special occasion cakes, caterers, and floral shops are using cut fresh flowers as decoration on cakes.


We respectfully ask that you immediately stop using cut flowers purchased from local florists for uses on cakes or in foods unless you can assure that the flowers have come from a safe source.



It sounds like cake flowers and plate garnishes are the target. While it's still ridiculous, it doesn't seem to include centerpieces. It appears the direct food contact issue is the focus. If some overzealous bureaucrat interprets that to mean centerpieces and buffet pieces, you may have an argument.

While the letter stated that the Health Dept. doesn't want us putting flowers on cakes or in foods, everyone knows how quickly governmental bureaucracy gets out of hand and can extend to other areas like centerpieces. If we just sit by and do nothing because the HD appears (emphasis on appears) to only be concerned with flowers on cakes...we could end up losing big time. Again, this could potentially cause major harm to florists and wedding/event designers.

Fresh flowers have been used on cakes for eons, why is the HD suddenly having an issue with it NOW?

 

[Flowerchatter03]

After you get all the ducks in a row, you might want to get some local publicity out of it. Perhaps a slant on how they are hurting the small businesses in your state by singling out the florist over other companies.

A very good point was given about the local farmers markets, etc. How do you know how that product was grown?

What about in the event that a local florist can prove they use only flowers grown in the US with the organic code on the package?

This is complete BS and if SAF doesn't get off their butts, we should all threaten to cancel our memberships. That is what they are paid to take care of.

We only need to see one state do this and the rest will follow suit.