Article Local Search Ranking Factors: 2009

Status
Not open for further replies.
Whew, I read the whole thing. It took an hour and half.

All I can say is that I don't understand what they are talking about. So I don't know this is a useful piece of info or total garbage.

I view most articles like this with considerable skepticism as well. And I totally do understand what they are talking about. But I'm always highly skeptical of someone who I know has an agenda of selling me their services.

I think it's truly an "opinions vary" and there's just a bunch of opinions - not a fact on the block. Hence the rating on how many agree I guess?

But I still read them and I did go in and make a small change to my local listing - adding the word "flowers" after our name.

Jury is out whether it really matters or not...but it was a simple deal, so...


PS I did find it quite interesting the claim that google can't tell a bad rating from a good one. that's a hmmmmmm.....


PPS it was still a good article and thanks for posting it Ry.
 
I view most articles like this with considerable skepticism as well. And I totally do understand what they are talking about. But I'm always highly skeptical of someone who I know has an agenda of selling me their services.
I know several of the participants and don't believe for one minute they would skew their answers in order to gain business. They get business because they're really good at what they do.

Besides, a few of the 27 contributors to the article are not professional SEOs and have nothing to 'sell' anyone - like me.
 
I don't think they skew answers - the sales agenda is just inherent in the whole deal. It's not deceptive or wrong, but it is very transparent.

I recently (about 6 months ago) went to what they called a SEO Shootout, whatever that is, where 3 supposed "experts" in the field critiqued local websites here.

That inherency I mention was written all over what they did and said. The unstated part was "here are the problems, hire me to make them go away" but they all had *opinions*, not facts, because I think facts are few and far between in that world. Problem is, you can test away and by the time test results are in, the algos have changed and the target has moved.

It was *interesting* - at best.

I too have studied this *thing* for many years, and each time I think I know something, I wait 6 months only to find it is pretty much no longer relevant.

So I wasn't dissing the article - simply taking it for what it is - a great collection of opinions.

and

opinions vary...
 
I don't think they skew answers - the sales agenda is just inherent in the whole deal. It's not deceptive or wrong, but it is very transparent.

I recently (about 6 months ago) went to what they called a SEO Shootout, whatever that is, where 3 supposed "experts" in the field critiqued local websites here.

That inherency I mention was written all over what they did and said. The unstated part was "here are the problems, hire me to make them go away" but they all had *opinions*, not facts, because I think facts are few and far between in that world. Problem is, you can test away and by the time test results are in, the algos have changed and the target has moved.

It was *interesting* - at best.

I too have studied this *thing* for many years, and each time I think I know something, I wait 6 months only to find it is pretty much no longer relevant.

So I wasn't dissing the article - simply taking it for what it is - a great collection of opinions.

and

opinions vary...

Hey Bloomzie,

I think you are right that it IS a collection of opinions, but they ARE from some of the top minds in local search.

I think an article like this is great for both the dabblers (like all us floristseos) and also for those with even more experience.

For the dabblers, it gives us a chance to focus our efforts and find out a few things that we didn't know, or hadn't focused on in the past. Possibly it gives us some direction on where to go when you hit a brick wall with your efforts and can't seem to move up any more. ie. Do everything on there, even the low ranked items.

Is it gospel, no, but is it a fantastic article to be read and gleaned from, absolutely.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CHR and bloomz
JB,

If 27 of the top OGs put together a report of the 49 most important factors in selling flowers, would you be interested?

Similar to SEO, there are few "facts" in marketing - it's a process of first trying to identify the factors involved, then learning what to do about those factors, then testing to see what happens.

These people spend their lives trying to plumb the depths of the Google Local algo. I know a number of them personally, and many are turning away business - not trying to solicit more :)

Ryan
 
sign me up! (but did you forget I already sort of know many of them?):>

But - I would take it with the same degree of grain of salt/skepticism....

That's all I'm sayin.....
 
Well Ryan, I have taken a good look. Most of it went right over my head but the stuff I think I understand I will have a go at. I love all the advice I get from this site and I'm more than happy to receive free advice from experts. (Because I certainly have alot to learn when it comes to SEO - I didn't even know it was until recently thanks to great advice from here and a trade magazine I read). At least I'm not frightened anymore of having ago when it comes to tweeking my website. I can thank you all enough for that.

:yourock:
 
OK great and case in point - I decided to add my product name (flowers) to my shop name based on what I read in that article.

Now I followed the link Cathy from Cathy's twitt and Blumenthal says not to do it, that name has to exactly match your actual business name.
 
OK great and case in point - I decided to add my product name (flowers) to my shop name based on what I read in that article.

Now I followed the link Cathy from Cathy's twitt and Blumenthal says not to do it, that name has to exactly match your actual business name.

That is true. I saw your earlier post that said that, and since you brought it up again...

I have been fighting this in my area with a couple of guys that have been doing that. So far I have been able to get one guy to change, but it seems people with questionable practices won't fix it. (Go figure)

Winnipeg Map Results

You can see there are 2 (if you get the same results I do) that have Winnipeg in their name. The rule:
Quality Guidelines:

The following items outline practices that could result in your business listings being permanently removed from Google Maps. While they cover the most common practices to avoid, Google may respond negatively to other practices not listed here. If you have any question about whether or not a tactic is deceptive, we recommend you stand on the side of caution.

  • Represent your business exactly as it appears in real life. The name on Google Maps should match the business name, as should the address, phone number and website.
  • List information that provides as direct a path to the business as you can. Given the choice, you may want to list individual location phone numbers over a central phone line, official website pages rather than a directory page, and as exact of an address as you can.
  • Only include listings for businesses that you represent.
  • Don’t participate in any behavior with the intention or result of listing your business more times than it exists. Service area businesses, for example, should not create a listing for every town they service. Likewise, law firms or doctors should not create multiple listings to cover all of their specialties.
  • Use the description and custom attribute fields to include additional information about your listing. This type of content should never appear in your business’s title or address fields.
The argument has been made to me that "How you represent your business online is in the spirit of the guidelines".

IMO that is bunkus, and if your company name does not include the city name, you shouldn't have it in there.

If you think about it, it makes no sense. Online, we all represent ourselves in the city which we are listed, which makes the map appear in the first place. Every business listing their city name wouldn't make much sense at all and should and is considered spam in the listings.

Adding the product name is also considered spam.
 
OK great and case in point - I decided to add my product name (flowers) to my shop name based on what I read in that article.

Now I followed the link Cathy from Cathy's twitt and Blumenthal says not to do it, that name has to exactly match your actual business name.

Here's the thing - some recommend adding the keywords to your business name, because it works. Blumenthal says not to, because Google's guidelines say not to.

Much like the paid link issue, when Google issues a "guideline" it's essentially a way of saying: "Don't manipulate the search results by doing stuff that we know about but haven't been able to get our all-mighty algo to catch, because it makes us look bad and one day when we get this figured out we will layeth the smacketh down upon 1-2 marginally prominent entities to make a visible point."

Should an SEO advise you to do what works now, knowing that Google doesn't like it and will eventually make changes to devalue that item?

Even amongst experts - opinions vary. That's why the report included responses from 27 different experts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CHR and duanermb
Here's the thing - some recommend adding the keywords to your business name, because it works. Blumenthal says not to, because Google's guidelines say not to.

Much like the paid link issue, when Google issues a "guideline" it's essentially a way of saying: "Don't manipulate the search results by doing stuff that we know about but haven't been able to get our all-mighty algo to catch, because it makes us look bad and one day when we get this figured out we will layeth the smacketh down upon 1-2 marginally prominent entities to make a visible point."

Should an SEO advise you to do what works now, knowing that Google doesn't like it and will eventually make changes to devalue that item?

Even amongst experts - opinions vary. That's why the report included responses from 27 different experts.

Great point. This is exactly how Google creates gray areas that are very annoying...
 
Should an SEO advise you to do what works now, knowing that Google doesn't like it and will eventually make changes to devalue that item?

Even amongst experts - opinions vary. That's why the report included responses from 27 different experts.

I'm sure one will advise you to do it and another will advise you not to...

I try to stay within googles guidelines - and I do discount advice from anyone who says you can push them - it has taken me years now to shake the stigma I got from participating in a link farm about 6 or 8 years ago - not worth pushing it IMO.


Plus, I'm not really sure what constitutes an "expert". :boggles:

I may even be one myself....:>
 
Here is a link to several videos on the subject

http://vimeo.com/5005826

Since I am new to these forums I think it would be best I defer to others for comments on the video that is center staged on the site right now.
 
The search engines have created enormous issues for local florists.

SEO = search engine optimized/optimization

As a local florist you are competing with the directories and order gathers.
Neither of which is actually in the florist business.

The directories and order gathers skillfully apply very competent SEO techniques for favorable positioning on search result pages,i.e. Google, MSN, Yahoo,Ask,etc.

The directories for the most part are just advertisers piled on top of each other creating an enormous amount of related content... which search engine algorithms embrace.

Sites like wesleyberry have elaborate schemes for SEO. They have every state in the US and Canada covered, with practically every city and town in those states SEO. The sites further carry through nearest zipcodes for delivery, funeral homes, and hospitals as well.

I googled with three search terms

flowers surfside ca

Shouldn't all local listings follow a guideline similar to this...

The search flowers surfside ca - should yield up those florists with surfside first, and all listings from other cities should follow thereafter. That is not the case... the term NEAREST is vague. This could very well be a way loyal advertisers are perked by the respective search engines. Just review the florists under local listings and you will see it is almost randomized information about florists scattered all around a radius of several miles from surside ca.

So if you had a florist shop in surfside you might be on page 9 and florists from a multitude of other areas would be listed before you. Again, remember the search terms were flowers surfside ca. All florists in surfside ca should head the list in search return results.

Looking at the local search results with the little map look just below the map and you will see who heads up the search results for the first few pages of search results.

In this case, Wesleyberry heads up the list of search results just below the local map. Other searches yield up other order gatherers and directories in the first pages of search results.

If you click on th wesleyberry about page you see this nice little florist van sitting in front of a flower shop. The funny part is, it doesn't matter what state, city,zipcode,funeral home, hospital you use to search when you click the about page you see the exact same picture.

This is outright deceit, because wesleyberry represent themselves to be something they aren't. You the local florist get those orders from them through your wire service and yield up approximately 27% of the price each time just to acquire the order. There isn't enough profit left, if you fill and deliver the order at the wire service recommended prices. That is just your variable costs not counting all your credit card transaction and wire service fees, bonds, vases,etc.

If the local florist trys to make it up with delivery charges, that won't work. Other florists are wary of larger delivery fees, because they feel the florist filling their orders will skimp on the quality of the flowers in the ordered arrrangement. At least that is what the wire services advise.

The wire services are a problem that is sure, because they have become order gatherers as well. Some have alter-ego websites they own represented as quality florists from states outside your local service area.
They do this because instead of just a wire service fee, they pick up another 20% as the originating florist.

Then of course you have to couple all this outrageous search engine problem, and wire services issues, with no information provided to you as the filling and deliverer of the flowers.

Purchaser information is the life blood to any business trying to develop a clientele. Previous satisfied customers build businesses, and the order gatherers take away the opportunties for improving the local florist's business.

The order gatherers use email campaigns and telemarketing to previous purchasers during peak sales times. Email adverting campaigns can be very effective, if they are timely and not overly applied.

There are plenty of legitimate store front florists who have taken on the dual role as local florist and order gatherers. Do I fault these florists?
No, I do not. Afterall, when you do a competent SEO of your website you have spent a great deal of time, effort and in many cases dollars to get favorable positioning on search results.

If the only way for local florists to get properly listed continues there are a few imperatives they must address to stay in business. They must have competent and continuous upgrades to SEO of their websites.

Again there are simple fixes -- local search results should be applied as the searcher applied keywords to the search. This is a no brainer for the search engines.

Honestly, it is beyond me why this isn't the rule instead of the exception.

The problem may just be the search engines are too involved in their adwords, adsense and other advertising to seriously address the needs of small businesses, not just the florist industry.

I reviewed the local listings and they are just a random grouping of florists within Google areas for defining a local search.

Fixing this is a no brainer... Local listings should fall directly under the terms searched first. That would probably be amenable all local businesses. They wouldn't be getting preferential treatment. They would be local companies described in the searchers terms and listed accordingly.

If you click on search return results of listings that are below the map of so-called local NEAREST you will have page after page of directories and SEO order gatherers.

The yellow pages was the original best source for finding a local florist.
The day of the yellow pages is just about done, as broadband internet connections have become more available and people are better educated to use computers.

The yellow pages criteria could be easily followed. The yellow page search was defined just like a google search. The user searches for the product or service, has options to choose advertisers or go through an alphabetical listing of local businesses providers. This is too simple for the search engines... I don't think so.

Any florist that wants to succeed today and tomorrow will have a website, and it most be SEO if you want to make it work. The days of the yellow pages are done. I haven't looked at a yellow page in two years to make a purchase of any kind. Most under 50 year olds are internet savvy and embrace technolgy.

The Florist industry has been very favored with customers for many generations. Customers opened the local phone book and found a local florist to take an order over the phone, and made sight unseen purchases. The ability to sell flowers and have them delivered required a great deal of trust and confidence by the customer. A confidence that florist shops enjoy to this day.

Yet, even this may be affected by the order gatherers over the near term.

Now the wire services have bonding requirements and other quality controls that assure some level of quality control. As it is, local florists accepting wire orders are basically compelled to provide the purchased product or close facsimile to order quality requirements. This is basically a self policing mechanism enforced by the wire services.

Don't get me wrong. I think overall the florist industry is made up of some very exceptional and caring people. Yet, when people are suffering in their businesses from lack of profits they do take drastic measures. Quality of product could definitely be affected at some point by trouble florists.

During the past mother's day period I helped my wife by making deliveries. Just for my own information I made it a point to ask each person I delvered flowers to who the order was from and where they were located. Yeah, nosey me. The results were astonishing.

The wire orders were all placed with order gatherers and the purchasers of the flowers lived within 9 miles of our shop. Effectlvely, I was delivering the flowers at discounted prices for order gatherers who were taking the business right out of our primary service area.

Needless to say, when I saw a purple van with proflowers on it it thought... fragmentation in the this industry has to be dealt with or the number of florist shop failures will continue to increase.

It is tough enough competing for florist business with the Grocery stores, Costco, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, then you pile on the internet order gatherers and complicitous wire services the future looks bleak.

The best and brightest florists that compensate for the changing ways of doing business and applying technology will survive. Stoic conventional attitudes among florists will lead to failure.

At some point, in the very near future the only salvation for this industry will be unifying florists. The combined clout of an organized industry can make demands and acquire more favorable treatment for florists.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mikec
Today I worked the search engines for several hours. Then I read through many of the postings on this boards.

My thoughts on the way florists are being treated by vendors and suppliers is pretty astonishing. I doubt I'll get a fuller picture for several more months.

Local florists are getting messed over more ways than imaginable. My gosh, if you tried to explain all the inequities no one would have the patience to listen.


An interesting thing I found to day, which kept me busy most of the morning was reviewing search results from the so-called Google maps - local business listings.

I started clicking the on maps for the different flower sellers, and then did street views. I did this for various parts of the USA.

Many of the addresses of so-called local business listings were apartments and residences. It was simple to do, just click on the florist address displayed in the listing. Then just click and move the little man and circle to the street address. Voila!

I wonder if those people working out of their homes and apartments access wire services? It wouldn't surprise me since internet order gatherers access the wire services.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.