Navy Brat on TV

[Carol Bice]

I am sure a lot of you watched the money program on Television with Diane. It just finished and I can't wait to see what others in the business think of their advice.

I thought Diane did a great job with her presentation and hopefully, some of the people in her town might just start buying from her since this program.

However, as Buddy and I watched it, we both thought they did not give the greatest of advice. For instance, are there jobs open for floral consultants that pay $60,000.00 per year? Maybe, I have just been out of the industry too long and it may be reasonable to expect this.

I just had the feeling that they didn't know the industry very well.

All of your thoughts will be very interesting reading.

Carol Bice

 

[hollyflr]

Carol,
I agree I thought the advice was poor, I do not believe that there $50, 60, 70 thousand jobs in the floral industry at this time. And from my prospective, trying to sell the flower shop is a no win situation.

I can understand now why you are contemplating bankruptcy, Dianne

Susan

 

[sandytf]

I agree with you Carol. I don't think it's that easy to pick up a job in the floral industry for $50k-$70k. I think the show's host had a lot better grip on the industry than the advisors. Hopefully, they will keep learning a little more about the business and be able to give more specific advice.

I think they gave good general advice about paying down the debt and saving for retirement, but I bet Dianne already knows that! That's why she's asking for help and advice!

I think Dianne did a great job and was able to come across with the passion that she (and many of us) have for the business.

Kudos to you, Dianne, for your bravery to put yourself out there and ask for the help. I hope you are able to work through this tough time and continue to do what you love.

 

[NavyBrat]

I agree totally with your opinions about the advice being less than extraordinary. I wanted to see how you all felt before posting my feelings. It was a whilrwind doing the program and even though I sent them every financial detail of my life, I felt they gave very basic solutions and did not focus on my specific issues. They also cut out many of my comments on the program and the part about buying chocolates instead of flowers sent me into crazy land! They never gave me the opportunity to respond to that comment, although I tried!

Honestly, the best advice I have received has been from Dan McManus from Team Floral. It's time to restructure my credit card debt with a bankruptcy filing, push reset and move on. If I can wipe out most of the credit card debt, I won't have problems paying the bills for the business. Currently, I am paying close to 5K monthly in credit card debt, the interest rates are sky high and there is no way to ever pay if off in a reasonable amount of time.

I think it's unbelievable that there is nothing being done to alleviate the credit card debt that many people have. The credit card companies have made it impossible to pay off the debt. Every time I turn around, I have a new higher rate. Instead of working with their customers to alleviate the burden, they have forced you to file bankruptcy! It's totally incomprehensible!

Many FC'ers have contacted me who have filed for bankruptcy. I will be calling those of you who were kind enough to send me messages. I would like to hear your personal views on the pros and cons.

 

[RWK]

(copied and pasted from other thread - reposted here because Diane asked me to )

I too caught the segment. I was a little perturbed by their suggestions. 50 to 60k in a floral career from a manager/employee standpoint? 22k a year to put away?

Not to be pessimistic......When I worked for Rish Flower Shop - I was making 12.50 an hour and that was pretty much the top of the payscale. Add in to that the benefits under the old owner and it probably totaled out to the equivalent of 15 to 17 dollars an hour. Different scales for different areas.......while 12.50 was top pay for SC.....it might be minimum pay for the NJ/NY area.


I really don't foresee any retail floral operation today that could offer that kind of compensation.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest, I see one of two options available.....first one is to do as suggested, sell the business, but with some type of rider or contract so that you stay on in some type of managerial capacity......or undertake the chapter 11 restructuring.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you talked to sme busines brokers and calculated out the selling price of the business outright? Selling direct and stepping away with cash in hand might be a way to go if the selling price is enough to meet the debt load.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, I am surprised that they did not mention a credit card option. This is a little known fact that take advantage of how the interest is applied to the credit card debt. You take the minimum monthly payment and divide it in half....pay 1/2 the minimum monthly payment every two weeks. Same AMOUNT of money, just paid differently. You can pay off a card in half the time paying half every two weeks than what it would normally take by making just the minimum payment a month.
__________________

A couple questions that I think they should have aksed, but if they did, it was not shown on the broadcast......Is the shop debt in and of itself manageable.....in other words, the debt incured by the shop, can the shop's proceeds handle that debt?

I'm splitting up personal and business in asking this question.


Assuming the business is viable enough so that you as the owner draw an income......then see my credit card payment tip. Like I said, it is all in the way the credit card companies figure and apply the interest on the debt.

Let's say for the sake of example that a credit card has 20,000 dollars owed on it for example......minimum payment 100.00 month.....and the time to pay off the card with just the minimum payment is 10 years.....( not real figures, just to illustrate concept )

By taking that 100.00 and splitting it up into two payments of 50.00 each......and paying twice in the same month ( same amount of money 50 + 50 = 100 ) instead of 10 years, you can pay it off in less than five years

The reason I know this works.....during the lean year ( most of 2008 ) Mom and I suffered, we had to do that......and the system WORKS......in one year we reduced the credit card amount of interest by almost a third.....and made a manageable dent in the balance too......just by splitting the payment in two.

Next question.....If the personal and shop debt are not separate, could you separate them into personal snd shop?

 

[boots12313]

I agree with Carol...I felt that the advice was lame...very general I also felt they didn't let Dianne answer a couple of times...I would like to find a job that pays 50-70k and not have all the problems I have on a day to day basis...I know that robbing Peter to Pay Paul is a double edged sword and I think a lot of us are in the same position. I admire Dianne for asking for help and going public and hopefully She will make the right decisions for her shop...all shops are different...and I know the floral industry is not the same as it was 30 plus years ago..and thats sad IMHO
Becky

 

[Tracy D'Amico]

add one more vote to the canned non-creative response. It's a shame that a show that portrays itself as "expert" couldn't come up with anything better than a bunch of florists could. And the handy dandy man with his friggin calculator - right, save $22k yearly when you're making $50k? Who pays taxes, mortgage, food, gas, insurance - not him apparently. I'd like to see that calculator whiz when he first deducts income tax from that $50K, then basic cost of living in NJ.

I left a $48K floral job to start my shop - sure do regret it sometimes. It is possible to make that, and more, in this biz as an employee, but it's not just salary - it's commissions, bonuses, overtime, bennies.

You are your own financial savior, trust your instincts with your decisions, but back them with cold hard numbers, including the # of years this decision may have to stick with you.

you still rock, always will :squish:

 

[MANORVILLE]

Way to go Di !

Missed it as we were at the event and got in way late, or early, however you look at it. Just watched it on the web site.

Mixed feelings on this end.

We felt that overall the level of advice was weak and the options limited.

All here that watched, three times, agree that the underlying message was that the flower shop, in this economy, should be nothing more than a hobby, as there is far too much BIG competition, which will continue to grow as consumer spending becomes more guarded.

The thought of contributing 22K to retirement is not a reality to many that we've personally spoken with, after paying all the associated overhead costs.

Selling and staying on as manager/general manager could be an option but pride would probably not allow such a move as 30 years of history would come into play. To answer to someone else would not be an easy task. If it fails then you would suffer 2 fold. If it prospers it could also create problems.
I for one do not see that as an option at all.

Taking a consultant or management position at that salary somewhere else is an option but how many shops are there that would foot the bill ? A full package is gonna put salary and benefits at 100K. A full package at 50 or 60K leaves little to survive on, especially going back to the 22K retirement investment.

Selling : OK, bad economy and the vultures are out. Already I've heard of many offers for shops all over that equated to pennies on the dollar. Dumping contents would probably provide more cash relief than taking a whopping loss on a sale, but then again, a small shops contents will not produce a windfall either.

Banruptcy : A viable but dangerous option as fallout will last for quite a while, yet it may be the only option.

Partnership / Investor : Unlikely that anyone will put up big bucks for small rewards. If an investor comes in and gives 200K, you clear your debt, but not really because your debt, plus a cut of the future business just replaced it.
Odds are not good that everything will turn around.

In order for it to be a viable consideration, the biz would have to diversify and expand into other areas. Greenhouse, nursery, landscaping, outdoor essentials, decorating, ponds, waterfalls, pools, furniture, irrigation, maint. etc...., or some other added areas. Of course that would cost as well.

Guy before us had 5 partners that we knew of. He did all of the above. He won every time because the partner got screwed, but lost everything in the end.

There are no easy answers anymore with this industry and many will fall. BIG Corps will not go away and are geared up to survive, partly because they have the monthlies from trusting florists that provide a never ending cash flow.
If that cash flow diminishes they will have losses, but they will still survive, while taking more and more from us.

I'll try to give you a call later or tomorrow.

 

[vghstaffer]

I too caught the segment.
Currently, unless the property you own with the business is yours, I really don't think you will be able to sell in this economic environment and get out from under it. I think it is unrealistic that anyone would buy a flower shop and see that as a good investment right now...so I don't even think that is an option unless the property itself is yours. Even then it won't sell overnight, which won't fix your problem.
Absolutely agree that the advice for being a consultant or involving yourself in the floral industry in some other aspect at the tune of 50-70,000 is lame advice. If those jobs were out there, half of us would be running out the door. Everyone is right when they said these "experts" do not know the industry well enough to give advice regarding that.
I think your only option is to file chapter 11. I really don't see a light at the end of the tunnel otherwise. Though your credit will be affected at 50 something it's not as big of a deal as it would be if you were 20 or 30 something. Realistically, no bank is going to let you restructure debt to the tune of $150,000. Not gonna happen.
There is no shame in filing. Save your sanity and yourself. It is not worth digging a bigger whole to save the business when you need to save yourself.
Laying awake at night sick with worry is not worth it.
Dianne, this business helped you out when you needed it most, when things were good and you were raising your daughter. Perhaps that was the reward and it has passed. Now it is not helping you, it is a monkey on your back.
Smart people know when to quit...put all pride aside, know you did the best job you could for as long as you could and chalk it up as an accomplishment, not a failure. I think if you let it go, you will wonder why you didn't do it sooner.
We are all behind you whatever you decide. We just don't want to see you bang your head against a wall one moment longer.
HUGS!

 

[Bigted]

Diane, unfortunately I missed it also because the stupid wedding was 1 1/2 hours late and we had to pick up the rentals.

Anyway, if credit cards are the problem, file chapter 11. You can probably keep the business. There will be two keys: First, talk to a bankruptcy lawyer. They can tell you if you can protect the shop and which assets you might lose. The other will be to call your suppliers and tell them what is going on. If at all possible you want to avoid going on COD. Since you won't have any credit cards that could really hurt the remaining cash flow. If you kept a good relationship with them you probably can work that out.

Good luck.

 

[Tracy D'Amico]

HERE's the link to the online video.

I just realized that the host said they would keep in touch with you, keep tabs on your choices. Let us know if they really do and if more options are presented from them.

 

[sloan]

You could always get a secured credit card. You send them a little money, and they give you a little credit. That amount grows over time. A million years ago, I was a banker, and we would rather loan to somebody fresh out of bankruptcy (and thus fresh out of debt) that was responsible enough to want to begin again. Our chances of getting paid were much better. There is life after bankruptcy. As a CPA in public practice, I have advised MANY people to file and stop punishing themselves. The day after bankruptcy is a new day. Move on and don't look back. It's tough out here; use all the tools available to you. Any maybe it's time to go work in somebody else's shop, and just concentrate on the things you love about this business. Leave the crappy business end to somebody else. (come move to Palestine.......). Life is short. Enjoy it. Next...

 

[Onyka]

Actually, 2 years ago I was on track to making 60k a year as a floral designer/consultant but I know I was just @@@@ lucky to have the job. I had a few other friends making about 40-50k though so I guess it isn't completely out of the question. I just think that those particular jobs are hard to come by.

 

[RWK]

I just thought of something that you need to consider and find out BEFORE you begin bankruptcy proceedings. First of all, at least in our state, it is required to work with a credit counseling service BEFORE you begin the bankruptcy proceedings.....I don;t know how it is in NJ.

Also, IF you were to declare PERSONAL BANKRUPTCY.......AS the voice, the brains, the chairman, the leader of Richardson's Florist.....How will the shop's debt be handled as part of that? You need to find out how the business financial situation will be if the shop OWNER is bankrupt......Is the business bankrupt too?

 

[Carol Bice]

Way to go Di !

Missed it as we were at the event and got in way late, or early, however you look at it. Just watched it on the web site.

Mixed feelings on this end.

We felt that overall the level of advice was weak and the options limited.

All here that watched, three times, agree that the underlying message was that the flower shop, in this economy, should be nothing more than a hobby, as there is far too much BIG competition, which will continue to grow as consumer spending becomes more guarded.

The thought of contributing 22K to retirement is not a reality to many that we've personally spoken with, after paying all the associated overhead costs.

Selling and staying on as manager/general manager could be an option but pride would probably not allow such a move as 30 years of history would come into play. To answer to someone else would not be an easy task. If it fails then you would suffer 2 fold. If it prospers it could also create problems.
I for one do not see that as an option at all.

Taking a consultant or management position at that salary somewhere else is an option but how many shops are there that would foot the bill ? A full package is gonna put salary and benefits at 100K. A full package at 50 or 60K leaves little to survive on, especially going back to the 22K retirement investment.

Selling : OK, bad economy and the vultures are out. Already I've heard of many offers for shops all over that equated to pennies on the dollar. Dumping contents would probably provide more cash relief than taking a whopping loss on a sale, but then again, a small shops contents will not produce a windfall either.

Banruptcy : A viable but dangerous option as fallout will last for quite a while, yet it may be the only option.

Partnership / Investor : Unlikely that anyone will put up big bucks for small rewards. If an investor comes in and gives 200K, you clear your debt, but not really because your debt, plus a cut of the future business just replaced it.
Odds are not good that everything will turn around.

In order for it to be a viable consideration, the biz would have to diversify and expand into other areas. Greenhouse, nursery, landscaping, outdoor essentials, decorating, ponds, waterfalls, pools, furniture, irrigation, maint. etc...., or some other added areas. Of course that would cost as well.

Guy before us had 5 partners that we knew of. He did all of the above. He won every time because the partner got screwed, but lost everything in the end.

There are no easy answers anymore with this industry and many will fall. BIG Corps will not go away and are geared up to survive, partly because they have the monthlies from trusting florists that provide a never ending cash flow.
If that cash flow diminishes they will have losses, but they will still survive, while taking more and more from us.

I'll try to give you a call later or tomorrow.

\


This an excellent post. Maybe you should take over the duties of the people on CNBC that think they know how to solve money issues.

Carol Bice

 

[CHERYL BAKIN]

Diane:
I did not get to see all of the program. I will try to view it later today. From the part I did catch, I have some general comments that might help you, and some questions.

1. Credit card debt -- Is this debt in the name of the business, or is this a personally guaranteed cc debt that you used for the business?

The difference is important.

If it is truly BUSINESS debt, then it is unsecured, and will be eliminated in a Chapter 11 bankruptcy (restructuring) or a Chapter 7 (liquidation).

If it is PERSONAL debt, that you have guaranteed, and used for the business, then you will have to file a PERSONAL BANKRUPTCY in order to eliminate this debt.

DIFFERENT OPTION ON THIS DEBT:
a. Call the credit card companies, and ask for a RATE REDUCTION, and for a FIXED PAY-OFF amount per month. They will want to take this amount directly from your checking account each month. They WILL reduce the rate just by you asking....and you can ask for a rate reduction every 4 months to 6 months.

b. Take a Bill Consolidation loan thru a local bank, or lending company, that will pay off the CC debt. And allow you to pay off these balances on a reasonable rate/time basis without incurring any more horrific fees. Cut up the cards ---- and don't use them again!!

2. BANKRUPTCY:
a. There are fees attached to this. An attorney will charge you between $3,000 to $10,000 for A Chapter 11 filing, reorganization plan, debt restructuring plan and monitoring of your situation.

b. There are filing fees for the Bankruptcy. they can run from $500 to several thousand $$, depending upon the size of your business.

c. Under a Chapter 11 reorganization, you are required to fill monthly reports with the Bankruptcy trustee who is assigned to you case. These continue until your reorganization plan is approved.....and can be required longer. You must pay the US Bankruptcy Trustee a quarterly fee -- which is $750 or more per quarter.

d. Any overdue federal, or state payroll taxes are NOT removed in a bankruptcy. Unpaid state sales taxes are NOT removed. Penalties and some amount of interest can be eliminated. Both of the above can be paid off over a 6 year period.

e. Bankruptcy (personal or business) stays on your credit reports for 10 years. It can be hard to get a car loan, buy a house, get credit of any kind.

F. Leases in a bankruptcy -- you generally have a short time period (30 to 90 days, I think) from the filing of your bankruptcy to reject any leases that may be burdensome. This clause is often used to get out of an expensive lease, for instance. The down side is that you then need to either move immediately -- or renegotiate with your landlord.

3. RETIREMENT PLANS:
It seemed to me, as I listened to their answers, that the advice only focused on the fact that you are age 54, and do not have much money saved for retirement. I do not think their 22K per year for you to save right now is very realistic. I also did not hear them mention what income you might expect from Social Security, for instance. That is just one aspect that I think they missed.

4. YOUR DAUGHTER & YOUR HELP to HER:
This one really, really needs some thought, Diane...........I don't think anyone has to tell you about the tough choices as a parent you need to make.

5. OTHER PROGRAMS AVAILABLE:
There is a not widely publized program thru the SBA right now as part of the economic stimulus package that will LOAN you $35,000. From what I understand, you do not make payments on the money for 6 months. The SBA guarantees 100% of the loan. The interest rate is very low. (I need to go find the info -- and will post it later.)

The idea of this program is to help the small business world make it thru ---- The problem is that not many people know about it. And banks are often redirecting you to their other, more profitable programs.

6. STORE INTERNAL RE-ORGANIZATION:
a. Cut every expense you can. Look at your employees (FT & PT). do you need them all? Can any be laid off? Can they job share (20 hr/wk each -- for instance?)
b. Purchasing -- do you buy daily, or weekly? Planning bulk purchases can trim your flower & hardgoods bills.
c. Look at WHAT you are buying. Can you cut the 27 sizes of baskets to about 4 for instance? Can you eliminate 30 different types of glass & get it down to under 10?
d. USE UP OLD PRODUCTS!!!! I recently was at a flower shop that is going to be closing. I counted over 100 FULL CASES of FTD/TF products in the garage from various holidays that need to be used up or sold. If there is anything that can be used, do so!


-----------------------------------------------
that's all I can think of right now.. may post more later.
Pls. Call me later in the week..... if you have time.

Cheryl

 

[Flore]

Dianne-
I add my vote as to the lameness of the advice given. I'm sorry you feel like you wasted your time...I probably would be feeling the same. At least you have gotten some sage advice here at FC!!

If you have a mortgage, you might want to check out this company. They have a system where you pay down your mortgage in considerably less time without changing your spending. It is not the same as a bi-weekly plan. They do take into account of all your expenses and create a payment plan that reallocates how you pay your bills. I'm not sure but maybe it could help you to pay down your credit card debt more quickly, too. It's pretty sophisticated, and there is a quick questionnaire that you take to see if you qualify. Maybe it can help you???:
http://www.u1stfinancial.com/index.html


Good luck in whatever you decide to do. I am confident you will make the right choices!
Lori

 

[TGDragonfly]

[youtube]VkCFeNeqyHk[/youtube]

 

[Luc]

I am surprised no one has thought of you getting a sugar daddy!

Or even get paid for phone sex after hours. $4.99 a minute is a good income.

Aside from that you did not have to go on CNBC with all the advice you gt for free on here.

Best wishes
Luc
P.S. I can't be a sugar daddy, I am a florist also.

 

[ivygreen]

Navy, Please don't consider it a waste of time. Look at it as an opportunity. You knew when you came forward to do this that you were actually ready to reach out for help. Just take this experience as a first step. In your heart you knew when you posted here and contacted CNBC that there was no magic bullet, that instead you were beginning a new path. No matter what comes from this experience it won't be as filled with worry and dread as it was the night this program sparked you to take action by contacting them. I have this saying on my wall, written in black magic marker:

Fall down seven times, stand up eight.

This process of reckoning will feel like a lot of falling down. But you are strong and you will persevere in some way. Just stand up. Again and again and again.

And when you get really bent out of shape remember this saying from Julia Child:

Tears mess up your makeup.