There's a negative for non-WS businesses as the WS/OGs fight the tide of complaints

[steve]

You are right and how Teleflora should be structure it the big problem the horse is already out of the barn. The florist that have dropped wire services are not going to come back into the fold to give them the end points. (1) the cost of simply being a member is way to high for the average small town florist (2) They been burnt way to many times and will never trust a wire services again. So the numbers are not there with exception and this is a strech if the program was profitable to be a filler florist then maybe the numbers would fall in place by people leaving FTD and 800. But I still think small town America is not going to be covered.

They the wire services ate their young and now there is no longer a way to serve the consumer.

 

[BOSS]

lack of coverage and, possibly taking "too many" orders, how would you spread your risk potential for the next big holiday...Mother's Day?

There is no doubt there is a growing coverage issue, not so much in the top 50-100 markets (yet even there they are starting to see refusals to fill/accept their discounted orders) and yes too, they took too many orders. We'll never know the number as to how many of the nondelivery complaints leveled against all three companies, but I would venture to guess the majority were on orders that never found a filler fool to accept the order in the first place.

You have probably heard the story going around about the shop that had 100 unfilled dotcom orders... truth is it was 70, and the company sent in FBC designers to hammer out the ones they could, forward others and reject the rest. However even with that there were nondeliveries. And they can't do that in too many shops, they don't have the personnel.

As to the other question... what would you do if you ran a ws (TF in this instance) to spread the risk? I would get the hell out of between the consumer and florist, direct consumers directly to filling shops, and get back to what I do best... be the go-between between florists, offer competitively priced services to florists and let them do what they do best... FLOWERS!

It's the ONLY thing that makes sense to me. Otherwise, we will continue to see a growing fiasco that ends up in EPIC FAIL at every major holiday. Florists, while many will stay in wire services for various reasons, and more and more unwilling to accept heavily discounted work, and allow "the man" to collect $25 delivery charges and not pass them along undiscounted to the local florist. And that trend is and will continue to grow.

 

[anytimeflowers]

They the wire services ate their young and now there is no longer a way to serve the consumer.

Quote of the week!

 

[Simon Says]

Some interesting thinking guys...possibly too radical and out-of-the-box for TF (or any of the Big 3) to adopt for Mom's Day 2012, even if they wished to.

A good part of the problem TF, I think, faces is that by working only with florists, the tide has definitely changed direction and I imagine they are now working quarterly with an increasing net loss of "members". On the revenue side this means that they have to put up fees to all (consumers and "members") OR increase product sales OR put up with a drop in gross revenue. All of those 3 "options" has a problem for obvious reasons and the first is, all else being equal, unsustainable. For this reason I see them swallowing their pride and going for drop-ship....it also means that they can offer other products: wines from their associate company, for example. And the models exist all ready with 1-800 & FTD for TF to follow. Drop-ship would also be an area where they can sell their own design containers (rather than through the dwindling numbers of florists) with easy "drop-in" floral bouquets for the consumer.

Meanwhile, I agree that the existing WS model is now verifiably broken for all the reasons given above. The WS have lost control.

 

[anytimeflowers]

I've been actively but quietly pursuing the proflor sold out scam from Valentine's Day that Laura discovered. I'm really not getting anywhere in regards to finding an attorney that is willing to take this on pro-bono. I really, really wish there were more florists across the country who had caught this AND taken screen shots. I have a feeling that is not going to happen.

I'm also very afraid that NOTHING is going to happen and that outrages me just as much as seeing that screenshot.

For example ~ From SAF

Google Responds to Valentine's Day Florist AdWords Ambushing

Brand Channel asked Google to comment on their strategy of allowing advertisers to bid on and use competitor names in the ad text, given the confusion it creates for the consumer. Check out the full story here.

Yep that's it, the entire article. They write more about the mating prospects for bees and how that *might* impact the propagation of yellow peonies for a week.

And in case you don't want to "Check out the *full* story here" let me just highlight the email Brandchannel received in reply from Google.

We asked Google to comment, and they replied by email.
"Google allows advertisers to bid on competitor keywords as well as to use competitor terms in the ad text itself as long as advertisers do not make any false or inaccurate claims in their ads (see more here)," we were informed when asked for Google's response to the Valentine's Day debacle. "We use a combination of manual and automated processes to enforce this policy. Ads that are found in violation of our policies will be removed."

Okay, that sounds like a bunch of drivel, so then I decided to look at those policies.

Google's trademark policy does not apply to search results

Aw, bs.

But then........it said this and I had to go back and find the screen shot and sure as $hit!

Our investigations only apply to sponsored links

In tiny, itty bitty words by that search result in the screen shot is says "ad".

Imo, that is sponsored. Right? If that's true, then Google is OBLIGATED to look at ALL of the ads this company placed to run that day with ALL of the keywords used. Since this is such a SERIOUS violation of Google's policy on Trademarks, they should immediately follow through with their published *fix* for the problem.

What happens if I violate this policy?​

• Ad disapproval: Ads that don't follow this policy may get disapproved. When an ad gets disapproved, it won't be able to run until the policy violation is fixed and the ad is approved.
• Domain disabling: Websites that violate our landing page and site policy guidelines may get disabled from running AdWords ads. This means that the website can no longer be advertised with AdWords until the problem is fixed.
• Account suspension: An account may get suspended if you have several violations or a serious violation. If this happens, all ads in the suspended account will stop running, and we may no longer accept advertising from you. Any related accounts may also get permanently suspended and your new accounts may get automatically suspended at set up. Learn more about suspended accounts.

The only thing that would appease me in this case is for Proflor to have their adwords account suspended indefinitely, or at LEAST for four months, let them start using it again in...say JUNE.

jmo

 

[CHR]

PF spends way too much $ with Adwords for their account to get suspended. It's probably why G's filters didn't 'catch' the campaign. A lesser-known advertiser might have brought some scrutiny.

PFs V Day 'florist is sold out of flowers' was completely calculated and I see the Adwords fiasco as an extension of the TV campaign they ran the week before the holiday. (Remember the Sold Out sign on the flower shop door?)

Linda, G changed the label from 'sponsored' to 'ads' last year, but they're the same thing.

I'm just thankful Chez Bloom got a screen shot and the gal from BrandChannel ran the stories. (Also kinda fun to be called a 'popular florist blogger' :> ). I've passed the BrandChannel articles on to a friend at Search Engine Land and asked for them to look into it, too. Their team might well know of any previous "'local company name' is sold out" attempts by Adwords advertisers.

Also, if you're in the Chicago area, I've heard that Channel 7 will be running an investigative report about FTD's V Day issues in the 10 pm news broadcast tonight.

Oh, as far as TF getting swamped with complaints during V Day, they were also swamped with a 23% increase in sales over 2011 (according to an article in today's SAF eBrief.)

Per Mark Goldston's investor conference call today, FTD had a 'modest increase' in V Day sales. (More on the conference call later.)

 

[BOSS]

Also, if you're in the Chicago area, I've heard that Channel 7 will be running an investigative report about FTD's V Day issues in the 10 pm news broadcast tonight.

Right here: http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/iteam&id=8554533

 

[Chezbloom]

I just watched it and sure enough the FTdd Spokesperson put the blame on THE LOCAL FLORIST. How long are florists going to put up being the scapegoats for this hideous horrible company? I am WS free but the image ALL florists get from Ftdd is the same. We look like crooks. All of us WS or not. Its time to dump this company before they put us all out of business. It is FTD against the local florist and anyone who does not see that is in complete and utter denial.

 

[Simon Says]

On the Proflowers/Google issue this is, surely, what it boils down to:

A) IF, as Prof stated to Brandchannel it was a computer error, that means Google is at fault on the count of inter-state fraud as defined by Section 1343 of Title 18 of federal law -Google's policies can state anything they want them to state but fraud is fraud.... Going with the issue of computer error, let us suppose that Google did remove it as soon as they know about it then Google is still negligent in that it's product allowed, however innocently, inter-state fraud to be made (assuming Chezbloom can prove that they were not sold out of flowers) and that Google has to face penalty for selling faulty product in their ad-words formula; OR
B) If it was intentional, then Proflowers and Google are breaking the law again with inter-state fraud and on a civil-level by making and publishing statements known to be false and with the intent to gain for themselves...(for they did not know Chezbloom had sold-out, especially if Chezbloom had not and Proflowers paid for the service?).

There are 2 potential avenues to follow - state or federal. Frankly, I think federal is better because it is inter-state as neither Google not Proflowers have an office in Minnesota.

 

[BOSS]

the FTdd Spokesperson put the blame on THE LOCAL FLORIST.

You know me, and I would never defend them, but in all honesty some of the blame does belong to some florists too... several left orders sitting there because they "didn't have time to REJect them"... and many of the design comparisons I saw that left me shaking my head, came from local florists.

That said... I think the best avenue going forward, is to distance yourself from the BIG3 as far as possible...

 

[Rhonda]

The Chicago news blurb, the lady that ordered for her girlfriend "the morning of Valentine's Day"...... how would you expect that to get delivered anyway. I certainly wouldn't. And FTD should not have taken same day orders for that day either. And in the "letter" from Robert Apatoff (I printed them out btw), he states "FTD provides far more than $5 to our members for delivery". Hmm $7 - 27% = $5.60 yep that's "far more" than $5 LOL

 

[BOSS]

And in the "letter" from Robert Apatoff (I printed them out btw), he states "FTD provides far more than $5 to our members for delivery". Hmm $7 - 27% = $5.60 yep that's "far more" than $5 LOL

Not sure what FTD was charging but TF was charging $25 for same day... seems to me, florists should get all of the $25...UNdiscounted!!

 

[jamie]

watch that video again and pay close attention to the last 10 seconds. A consumer who is a lawyer is looking into a class action lawsuit. I have wondered why this has never happened before.

I keep hearing how people are afraid that the fallout from .com failure is hurting the industry, but my yearly sales GROW after v-day every year. I have gained a few hundred new and happy customers. I just need to convert them to non-holiday customers. So far, every year, I find people who use us 2 or 3 more times after they found us on Valentine's (or M-Day). I had a very rough Valentine's, but I did what I could to make the mistakes right. Customers aren't sitting on hold for hours, or blowing up my facebook page with negativity.

The negative impact is most likely NOT going to be felt by the shops who focus on local business. It will be felt by the shops who continue to pay exorbitant wire service fees while seeing a decline in volume, and (more importantly) quality of orders to cover those fees. PF, FTD and 800 drop ship and branded stores will take the biggest hit because those names are used in the customer complaints. These companies know what they are facing and will continue to market through the problems. There's a sucker born every minute.

The people who got ripped off by the wire services are not my problem. I would like to claim every order that comes into my delivery area, but the truth is I couldn't handle it. So, I will just try to grow steadily and sustainably. Some people will choose flowers, some will choose drop ship and some people will choose other things. It's not realistic to think you have to capture EVERY customer in the gift market.

 

[BOSS]

BOSS's Quote of the day!

The negative impact is most likely NOT going to be felt by the shops who focus on local business. It will be felt by the shops who continue to pay exorbitant wire service fees while seeing a decline in volume, and (more importantly) quality of orders to cover those fees.

Exactly.......

 

[Rhonda]

Not sure what FTD was charging but TF was charging $25 for same day... seems to me, florists should get all of the $25...UNdiscounted!!

I haven't had one shop respond that received the "Valentine Day Guaranteed Delivery Charge" from TF... not one.. so go figure..

 

[Simon Says]

The Chicago news blurb, the lady that ordered for her girlfriend "the morning of Valentine's Day"...... how would you expect that to get delivered anyway. I certainly wouldn't. And FTD should not have taken same day orders for that day either. And in the "letter" from Robert Apatoff (I printed them out btw), he states "FTD provides far more than $5 to our members for delivery". Hmm $7 - 27% = $5.60 yep that's "far more" than $5 LOL

Wish that they made more of the "....more than $5 to our members..." with the reporter retorting with the question "What happens then to the balance of the $20+ you charge the consumer for 02/14 delivery" and see how that is answered by FTD....and FTD were charging at least $20 for 02/14/12 delivery. Wish there was some real investigatory journalism going on.

 

[Luc]

This valentine day I had only 2 orders that came to me for Valentine. 2 from an order gatherer. After I checked their site, they had scammed, yes scammed the sender by $13 + delivery fee they collected. I rejected the order Monday evening before I went home. At 8 I received a call about the order asking me how much do they need to send to me to get this order done. I done told them I do not fill orders from them, period. THey tried a second time and a third time which I hell at them at this point that I won't fill thier scammed orders. A little while later I got a "Do not report" order from TF HQ. I told them I would not fill those order because they scammed the sender. Anyway I had just talked directly with the sender, because he call us and I told him what happened. He confirmed what I was saying all along that he was charge $73 + del and the gartherer only sent me $60 inc. del. ANd the arr was full or reg roses and spray roses. So I did get the consumer to buy from me from now on. I also voiced my complaint to TF HQ in Canada but no responses came from them. They probably dont care what I had to say about this so called florist in Mission CA. Imagine if they scammed 1000 orders of at least $13 each, that is a pretty darn profit aside from their service fee they charged and their rebates. Sometime yo must say no to drugs!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BOSS]

I haven't had one shop respond that received the "Valentine Day Guaranteed Delivery Charge" from TF... not one.. so go figure..

Yes I know, and I know there are none... question is, why do folks put up with it?

 

[CHR]

Can anyone find IN WRITING correspondence from FTD regarding how many dollars are included in order values for delivery?

Can anyone get a screen shot from FTD's site where they disclose local delivery is included in arrangement prices?

I appear to be blocked from work from viewing FTD.com today.

 

[BOSS]

I can't find it on the site... they do elude to "shipping or service" fees a lot, but never tell what they are (see image). I placed a order, and the $15.99 "service fee" was added but now where in the order process is delivery fee shown or mentioned. Also I could not select AM delivery...

You do get the option to sign up for FTD Gold, and get "free" shipping OR service fees, however I doubt you do. I'd bet, that if you sign up, you get free shipping every time as they do not disclose what that is, and they collect the service charge on every order. Just my cynical judgmental opinion.