Florist to Florist credit card orders

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Greg

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Dec 10, 2004
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Ottawa (Nepean)
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Ontario
I am a florist in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. I am a member of Teleflora. When another florist calls me and gives me an order using their own credit card, I do give them a discount on the flowers only (not on the delivery charge) and I don't charge them any sales tax. It has been a fairly infrequent occurance up until now, so I didn't worry about how technically correct the tax part was. However, with the increasing number of these orders, I am wondering how the majority of other florists are handling these incoming credit card orders from other florists. Up until now, I have given a 10% discount on the flowers, then added my delivery charge, but I don't charge the taxes. (PST and GST). I figure the sending florist has already collected the taxes, so I won't charge them again. Some florists question why we only give a 10% discount, and our answer is "if you want the full 20% industry standard discount, then join a wire service and pay your dues like the rest of us." I would expect the sending florist to charge their customer a service charge on the wire out, and make their money that way, as opposed to relying on a full 20% discount from me.

Anyway, at the risk of opening a can of worms here, I am really just wondering what other florists give as a discount, and if you charge the taxes. Thanks. Greg
 
No prob Greg! But try a search on this topic...has been mentioned JUST a few times around here!

Plain & simple, I take the order, no tax (gave up on the issue wheather to take it or not), no discount....just tell me how much to fill the order for plus delivery. Handle the "discount" on your end. Why this way? Because I have had so many florists say take 10% off, take 15 % off, fill it for full amount, blah, blah, blah, etc. Just give me the TOTAL amount you want charged...Run the card... Also, AVS better match or NOOOO deal!

- H.
 
Greg,
We give 10% of flowers only BUT you MUST collect the GST as the are no exemptions from it. (Sorry I'm not familiar with Ontario rules re PST).
When you pay for anything you pay the GST/HST and claim the amount charged as an Input Tax Credit and charge and remit the GST/HST.
Rock on.......
 
Greg said:
...It has been a fairly infrequent occurance up until now, so I didn't worry about how technically correct the tax part was. However, with the increasing number of these orders, I am wondering how the majority of other florists are handling these incoming credit card orders from other florists. Up until now, I have given a 10% discount on the flowers, then added my delivery charge, but I don't charge the taxes. (PST and GST). I figure the sending florist has already collected the taxes, so I won't charge them again. Some florists question why we only give a 10% discount, and our answer is "if you want the full 20% industry standard discount, then join a wire service and pay your dues like the rest of us."
Click to expand...

My favorite line that a florist would give me when sending direct is "We pay good money to be in these wire services so that is the only way you can send it to us".:faint: Heard that one daily. That is why we abandoned direct orders.

I would have greatly appreciated your 10% discount. When I started sending direct 3 years ago I recommended that the florist discount only the flowers and then tack on delivery. I look at it as a professional courtesy and reciprocate it. We still do even though we don't send direct.

I would add to your tax question: How do you handle this when you get a direct order from Oregon. We don't have sales tax.

Jason

P.S. From your post it appears that 'the rest of us' may be a shrinking number!:)
 
The proper tax rule is that you collect full GST on the amount. If you give a discount, then that applies before the GST. Ontario florists do not have to charge PST on incoming orders.

Ex: $100 incoming, 10% discount on flowers
$100 - $10 delivery = $90
$90 flowers x 10% disc = $81 charged
$81 flowers + $10 delivery = $91 subtotal
$91 x 7% GST (soon to be 6%) = $6.37
$91 + $6.37 = $97.37

Anything else is going to result in you being accountable for the tax shortfall. Every direct order you have received and not charged tax for you are responsible to pay the government that tax you didn't collect.

Ryan

PS - For the PST you need to collect their tax ID number, or charge the PST, or you are liable for that as well.
 
Infinite said:
The proper tax rule is that you collect full GST on the amount. If you give a discount, then that applies before the GST. Ontario florists do not have to charge PST on incoming orders.

Ex: $100 incoming, 10% discount on flowers
$100 - $10 delivery = $90
$90 flowers x 10% disc = $81 charged
$81 flowers + $10 delivery = $91 subtotal
$91 x 7% GST (soon to be 6%) = $6.37
$91 + $6.37 = $97.37

Anything else is going to result in you being accountable for the tax shortfall. Every direct order you have received and not charged tax for you are responsible to pay the government that tax you didn't collect.

Ryan

PS - For the PST you need to collect their tax ID number, or charge the PST, or you are liable for that as well.
Click to expand...

100% correct....and don't forget the PST #.......or you could be in for a nasty surprise if you get audited!!!!!!
 
Thanks for all your help. I wonder how many debates I am going to get into on the phone with the sending florist when I try to explain how their $100 order, after giving them a 10% discount, will have a charge on their credit card for $97.37 .... and it will probably be "on my dime" too!

I really appreciate all the advice, and will update how we handle these direct orders. Greg
 
Greg said:
Thanks for all your help. I wonder how many debates I am going to get into on the phone with the sending florist when I try to explain how their $100 order, after giving them a 10% discount, will have a charge on their credit card for $97.37 .... and it will probably be "on my dime" too!

I really appreciate all the advice, and will update how we handle these direct orders. Greg
Click to expand...


Greg, unless I am not understanding (entirely possible), isn't $97.37 better than what one receives on the wire (even on your dime as long distance is so reasonable now)? Thanks.

V
 
Greg said:
Some florists question why we only give a 10% discount, and our answer is "if you want the full 20% industry standard discount, then join a wire service and pay your dues like the rest of us." I would expect the sending florist to charge their customer a service charge on the wire out, and make their money that way, as opposed to relying on a full 20% discount from me. Greg
Click to expand...

Greg, if I, a florist, am visiting in your city and stopped into your shop, made my self known to you, and discussed industry matters that are common to you and me and when I am ready to go, I decide to buy a bokay to take to my hostess. Would you give me a 20% courtesy discount IF I ALSO BELONGED TO A WIRE SERVICE, or would you give me just a 10% discount because I do not belong to a wire service?

What's the difference?

By the way, I would prefer that there was no discount, no commission, no rebates. The whole purpose for wire orders in the first place was to increase flower sales. The 20% was supposed to be an equalizer [how? I do not know]. The only justification for the 20% discount is if your shop aggressively promotes the service of outgoing wire orders which means you are selling for me. If that were in fact happening, I would vote for the 20% discount. However, it is not happening. The wire services are doing something to promote sending flowers because they benefit from those sales. No wire orders, no wire service.

Up until this month, my outgoing orders have been up an average of about 15% [this month I won't match June of 2005 and don't know why] and I do not belong to a wire service nor do I use a selection guide.

Sorry, got off the track. In my shop, F2F direct orders get a 20% discount and every credit card gets processed the same day. The reason I mention that is every year I am surprised at how many orders I send out by credit card never get processed.

When I send out an order, if the florist says no discount, I pay 100%. If the filling florist says he/she has to collect sales tax and there are no other florists, I pay the tax. Gotta get the job done for my customer. That's what is important.

If consumers get flowers delivered with out a wire service, why do florists need a wire service?
 
John and Ryan are both correct.
VERY IMPORTANT IS TO ASK FOR THE ID TAX NUMBER.
Was audited about 8 years ago, and if they found no Tax exempt number, I was dinged for the tax nO And if or butts.
Also get the name of the flower shop and keep all of that information.
I give 15% off the whole thing.... and charge the GST. you must charge it and the sending florist can claim it just like receving goods.
Luc
 
Tom,

You're way off topic here. This question was about the proper handling of shop to shop orders. Please, let's not hijack this conversation into another "WS vs No WS" rant fest.

Ryan
 
Luc said:
.
VERY IMPORTANT IS TO ASK FOR THE ID TAX NUMBER.
Luc
Click to expand...

Thats why we have a great fax order form we developed with all the pertinent tax information listed on the bottom.

I don't ask for a discount when I send direct, Many times when I reconcile the cc statement I will find a discount. I feel it offsets the others who add tax. I do have several florist that we send back and forth frequently and we will give each other a discount.
 
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