How can small shops learn/use SEO effectively without paying an arm and a leg?

[Dorothy]

I'd like to revitalize this thread from December 2007 by hcflorist in the original thread entitled "Maybe 'Focus' is the problem" and I also second bloomz's nomination for Post of the Week here 2 years later:

I think retail florists need to REFOCUS and do it quickly if they are to survive much longer.

We need to ask ourselves why the biggies like Pro, FTD.com, and TF.com are taking our markets away from us. And there is pretty much just one answer. INTERNET SALES ! ! !

The ONLY chance we florists have of competing with that is butting heads directly with them IN OUR LOCAL MARKETS on the INTERNET with well run, well stocked, and continually updated WEBSITES directed at OUR LOCAL MARKETS and designed to OUTCOMPETE those guys in our markets.

We can talk about what we do for walkin business, our service, our value, and our "professionalism", etc. all we want. Fact is, John Q. Consumer could care less, as evidenced by the statistics. What he wants to see is an attractive, user-friendly store on his computer with competitive prices that is there and easy to find when he wants it and needs it. He's ordering everything over the internet, including pizza. Why would anyone think he would go out of his way to look for a B&M store for flowers?

The biggies are throwing millions of dollars at internet marketing. But they're spreading it across the entire world. So they're pretty thin in many local markets. Local florists are largely ignoring and missing out on the opportunity to effectively compete against these guys in their own local markets on the internet. It can be done and it's probably what most of us need to be focusing on. Cause that's where the .coms are most effectively kicking our butts. Why else would we call them ".coms"?

How a couple years can change things: "So they're pretty thin in many local markets..." Used to be that our flower shop's main website ALWAYS showed up in the top 1-5 in google searches. Our 'city' is small, small, small. Now, all the OGs and DOGs take first place (right after our TF site - which we WANT to lose eventually).

So, how do small shops with limited advertising/marketing budgets rank higher to recapture their local (online) market without paying the Big Bucks for PPC or SEO management? IMO this is getting totally out of control for the little guy while making the bigger guys even bigger....

I hope this thread will be a pool of ideas for the smaller shops and what they've learned that works for them. And if the bigger shops or online OGs want to comment, fine, but please keep in mind that our budgets/resources are no where near yours. We (smaller shops) need realistic/practical advice.

Thank you!

 

[BOSS]

Dorothy, it does not matter if your big or small. You are already ahead of the pack, you do not have a wire service template site, something that too many florists do.

For you, one thing I noticed is you key words. You have "same day delivery" but delivery of what? You should add, "flower delivery", "delivery {postal code}", city flowers, flowers city, delivery city and such.

I'm by no means an expert, I'm just going *back* to school myself on all this stuff this week, and hopefully someone with more current knowledge than me will chime in, and correct me if I'm wrong.

Another thing, you do not have any content to speak of. You shop online goes to a page with a TF logo. Also, you use no ALT TXT on your images. You use Bouquet1.jpg instead of Star Gazer Lily Bouquet. Someone searching for Bouquet1.jpg would find you, but not someone searching for your city and Star Gazer Lilies, for instance...

i'm just say'n...

 

[SpringCity]

I'm going to change my keywords right now! Thanks Boss.

I use Godaddy and bought Traffic Blazer (under $50) which takes you through some of the steps like submitting to search engines, etc. I don't know if it's working, but I'm getting more phone calls from people who say they saw my website, so something is working.

I'll be watching this thread with interest!

 

[BOSS]

Unique content is KING too... you have to be different, your own images, your own words and content. The more the merrier!

Blog...write about your store, staff, yourself, but connect it all to your site. See this thread.

Links too... inbound hopefully, from other florists, directories etc, and outbound links as well, although they do not add as much weight.

 

[avenuegardensflorist]

....


anyone tried this?

http://www.google.com/sites/help/intl/en/overview.html

 

[duanermb]

Time, Learning and Effort mostly for the non pros...

All of the above...and:

Here are a couple of resources and tools: (No tool or resource is 100%, just an idea of what is going on)

Start here: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35291

This one is fun, because you can watch yourself grow with SEO (but I wouldn't swear by it) :
http://website.grader.com/

(The Florist Blog started at a 5 I think, and over time grew to mid 80s, Dragonflyflowers.com is about a 57,, and strangely enough, the #1 Winnipeg guy is a 39 today... usually a 55 - hmm)

This has some good tools and resources and a blog I follow:
http://tools.seobook.com/

Traffic Blazer (As stated above), is kind of cool for getting listed in directories you may not find, as is this for links back.

This page has some neat tools and stuff.

Very good info: http://searchengineland.com/

Lots of reading and learning to put it into practice. There is a good reason that Ryan and others do this for a living, and why accolades are given to those that are good at it like Cathy. It is definitely a real science that i don't understand fully, but you can do some good on your own for sure!

 

[bloomz]

Everything one needs to know about SEO is freely available on the web - it's just a matter of taking hundreds of hours to search it out and read read read so you can learn to sort the self promoters out from the good information.

But it's all out there if you take the time to learn it.

 

[theRKF]

One day, I think I'll propose a race

Starting from scratch, we'll take a web designer / SEO and a floral designer and have each try to perfect the other's profession. I think it would make for great reality television.

The real life answer lies in the fact in the real world, neither has to be perfect. Most florists do an average job - but if every arrangement was graded and nit-picked, there would be flaws found. They continue to exist because good enough gets the job done and perfection is not cost-effective.

In SEO, unless you're in a hyper-competitive space you can benefit from some level of competent DIY work. It's "good enough" in a small town - you don't need to be paying Aaron Wall 6 figures to rank in Summerland, BC or Whalefart, NL.

In both cases, the measure of success is not being really bad. Don't send dead, broken flowers. Don't have a hideous 90's looking keyword-stuffed site with animated GIFs and scrolling marquees. Try to have enough pride in yourself to have ecommerce.

What's going to happen is that as the prominence of local search continues to rise, those who dominated the national landscape will focus on local markets. Consider Starbucks or Second Cup raising the bar on coffee quality vs. a local no-name donut shop. When the bar is raised, what was good enough yesterday becomes today's animated gif.

Designers have to stay on top of trends in the big and small picture. What's hot in NYC might not hit Wisconsin for a few months/years - but the shop that sees it coming will be prepared to capitalize. In the same way, SEO trends and best practices change quite regularly (FYI: The Strider team can spend up to a few hours in a day reading and studying new information on SE behaviour and search marketing tactics).

To address some issues / questions posted above:
Where to source info:
Best venue for small business owners is run by my friends at Search Engine Guide. Jennifer Laycock (one of the sweetest ladies to walk the earth) writes about social media and PR. Stoney DeGeyter covers basic SEO, Miriam Ellis writes on Local Search and Sage Lewis shows you how to use video effectively.
www.searchengineguide.com

SEObook is awesome for higher level marketing thought, but some of the SEO content might go over the head of (or not be applicable to) the average SMB owner.

You can also read Matt McGee, David Mihm, Greg Sterling and Mike Blumenthal on Local Search issues.

Tip: Look at CHR's signature for a link to her fave blog artices on these topics.

Avoid automatic SEO grading programs. They are useless and offer a false sense of security.

Walk before you run: before you can apply some of the more advanced tactics, you need to have content on your site to work with. Blog or write content pages on your domain so the search engines actually have something to process. Keyword research tools can help if you're stuck for topics ... but really, if you're just starting and don't have topics you might just be toast from the get-go.

Bonus: Sitemaps are a crutch, and rarely necessary for smaller sites. They may even be harmful.

Ryan

 

[theRKF]

Here's another question that comes to mind:

What qualifies as "an arm and a leg?" $100? $1,000? $10,000?

Ask yourself how realistic your goals and expectations are. Then ask yourself how valuable your time is.

I could just as easily say (misquoting Bloomz): Everything you need to know about plumbing is available online. You just have to look it up, filter through the crap (pun intended) and gain some experience to know how to apply what you've learned. How many are DIY plumbers? Electricians? Contractors?

What is the potential cost of buggering up your plumbing/electrical/construction work?

 

[Dorothy]

Here's another question that comes to mind:

What qualifies as "an arm and a leg?" $100? $1,000? $10,000?

See, this is something I don't know either. I seem to recall when simple websites averaged something like $10,000 to create in the beginning. Even webhosting cost crazy money every month. Now, everyone can build a site themselves and pay very little to a hosting company. So, how much does SEO really cost?

I hear what you're saying about 'how much your time is worth' though. True enough. However, I am determined to learn as much as I can, mainly because I like to understand what I'm paying for. , I'm a stubborn Aquarian and I may not be a quick learner but I am a life-long learner, so I'll keep plugging along and thank those along the way who offer good advice.

So, thank you Ryan, Duane, BOSS, and anyone else I've neglected to mention for your help.:blowkiss:

 

[theRKF]

See, this is something I don't know either. I seem to recall when simple websites averaged something like $10,000 to create in the beginning. Even webhosting cost crazy money every month. Now, everyone can build a site themselves and pay very little to a hosting company. So, how much does SEO really cost?

I've been building websites since 1995 - and I've never charged $10k for a site. Yet. But I'm still young

One difference:
- hosting (like flowers) is a commodity
- SEO / Marketing (like floral design) is a skillset

Finding an SEO provider is like shopping for any other service or purchase. You have to build a realistic expectations of budget, goals and performance. You likely won't get a fully featured new delivery van for $10k - but for $35k you can do quite well. For $60k the van will almost drive itself For $10k, however, you can get a used van that might be very serviceable. It's about balancing expectations with budget - and realized impact.

For SEO you can choose:

• "Free" = the only costs are:
  • your time in learning
  • your time in implementing
  • your opportunity costs related to lost business during the learning and implementing process, the impacts of mistakes during the learning process, and the cost of what you might have otherwise been doing to better your business
• Low budget = In the range of $100-500 / month ($1k-6k / yr)
  • Good fit for local business
• Midrange = $500+ per month
  • likely a shorter term campaign, unless you're in a big city with more competition
  • a suitable option for trying to make a progressive national impact
• Big Impact = $100k+ per year
  • Obviously, not for the small shop
  • Suitable for a major national / international impact
  • Stepping "into the ring" with FTD, TF, 800, ProFlowers, and other top tier OG operations

Our focus is on serving clients in the low-to-midrange brackets. We have received inquiries from larger players in the floral market and have directed them to agencies that are suitable for the big ticket campaigns.

Ryan

PS - While it's off-topic a bit, I'd love to hear from Joe Mioux, Prestonway, and others about how they advise calculating a per-hour rate for billing clients (for off-site setups, factoring labour into design charts, etc.) Maybe a good topic for a new thread? Once we have determined a way to value a florist's time, we're in a better position to evaluate the cost / benefit of SEO.

 

[duanermb]

Whalefart, NL. lol

Avoid automatic SEO grading programs. They are useless and offer a false sense of security.

Ryan

I just said they were fun...

Great tips Ryan. Thanks.

 

[SpringCity]

Thanks Ryan, and I do get your points that you often make about us trying to do it ourselves. Sometimes we get indignant when a bride wants to make her own bouquet but we think we can build a website.

I just wanted to clarify something....I enjoy the little bit of web/computer stuff I'm able to do. Over the past 10 years I've learned some html and css and anything else I could absorb because I like doing it, not because I'm cheap. I like changing up the content when I want to, and having control over my site. Whether it's a smart business move forever, is another question. I am satisfied for now but as I grow I may have to rethink what I'm doing.

Anyway I appreciate your patience and help on here even though I'm sure it's annoying at times.

 

[prestonway]

I've been building websites since 1995 - and I've never charged $10k for a site. Yet. But I'm still young

For SEO you can choose:

• "Free" = the only costs are:
  • your time in learning
  • your time in implementing
  • your opportunity costs related to lost business during the learning and implementing process, the impacts of mistakes during the learning process, and the cost of what you might have otherwise been doing to better your business

• 
  
  I LOVE IT when you use terms like "opportunity cost", Ry.
  
  Reminds me of the reasoning behind going to University versus working right out of high school. If my buddy is making $40,000 a year right out of high school, but I'm going to University, he's making $160,000 over a four year degree.
  
  I'm making nothing...plus I have to pay for tuition & books (call it another $90,000...with our socialized Canadian educational subsidies).
  
  So my opportunity cost is $250,000.
  
  How many years will it take me, while earning $50,000 a year compared to his $40,000, to make up for the lost opportunity? (Difference between what he makes & I make is $10,000/year...so it takes 25 years for me to just catch up).
  
  

  Once we have determined a way to value a florist's time, we're in a better position to evaluate the cost / benefit of SEO.

  
  I'm going to give you a bad example...:tread:
  
  Let's say someone arbitrarily values their time at $30.00/hour.
  
  You choose to spend 2 hours a day on FlowerChat, over 365 days in a year, for a total of 730 hours.
  
  Your opportunity cost is $21,900 in this method of education.
  
  To some, it may be worth it, but...
  
  Conversely, your alternative is to invest $21,900 in SEO.
  
  Hmmmmmm.......I dunno what I'd do....:wallhead:
  
  Remember in my case Ryan, I started my website in 1999.
  
  I knew nothing.
  
  It took you to convince me to become e-commerce enabled in 2003, as I didn't calculate the opportunity cost of not doing so.
  
  Taught myself what little I know (including animated gifs :wide, but...
  
  ...I had three full months to do so, & didn't have FlowerChat as a diversion...
  
  ...Because I was home taking care of my Mom as she was dying from cancer.
  
  I don't wish this "opportunity" on anyone...

 

[theRKF]

I enjoy the little bit of web/computer stuff I'm able to do. Over the past 10 years I've learned some html and css and anything else I could absorb because I like doing it, not because I'm cheap. I like changing up the content when I want to, and having control over my site. Whether it's a smart business move forever, is another question. I am satisfied for now but as I grow I may have to rethink what I'm doing.

That's awesome - I applaud you for taking the initiative, and being willing to learn and experiment, and re-evaluate over time. All smart business decisions.

Truth: some DIY brides actually CAN do a decent job.

JB has done a decent job with his sites, and reaps the rewards. Call it a perk of having Twila at his side to run the shop while he plays online and reads forums <nudge>. Every shop needs a Twila.

 

[duanermb]

That's awesome - I applaud you for taking the initiative, and being willing to learn and experiment, and re-evaluate over time. All smart business decisions.

Truth: some DIY brides actually CAN do a decent job.

JB has done a decent job with his sites, and reaps the rewards. Call it a perk of having Twila at his side to run the shop while he plays online and reads forums <nudge>. Every shop needs a Twila.

That's a great point. We are the same at our business. Buffie runs the shop and I do all this other stuff. Everyone's situation is different.

I agree that the rewards will come faster, and benefits will be better from getting someone to do it for you. (We intend to do that in the future, add a new site etc etc) But, we just turned our first profit in 2007, leaving 2008 as a year to actually see what it is like to run a profitable business, and we couldn't see ourselves spending any money on that during 2008.

My story with this has been hit and miss, but whatever we have done on our own has had tangible benefits. A lot of shops can't afford the alternative. After seeing the benefits of the do it yourself stuff, we now see the benefit of pursuing something more professional. (and now have the $$ to do it)

That being said, we will likely trade the cost of Yellowpages for the cost of a new site and other online marketing initiatives - yet to be determined.

My investment has been in time and education. We are lucky that Buffie can focus on the store, and I can focus on the outside influences.

I hope that one way or another, we can all learn enough to make the right decisions for our unique situation, and succeed, especially in these tough times.

 

[Dorothy]

Plenty of Fish Article in INC

Interesting and inspiring read. Yea, to all you DIY-ers!

"Frind knew little about search-engine optimization or online advertising, but he was a quick study. From March to November 2003, his site expanded from 40 members to 10,000. Frind used his home computer as a Web server -- an unusual but cost-effective choice -- and spent his time trying to game Google with the tricks he picked up on the forums…."

The article also says, "Competitive data, once available to only the largest companies, can be had with only a few clicks on http://compete.com/ and http://www.quantcast.com/"

FULL STORY: http://www.inc.com/magazine/20090101/and-the-money-comes-rolling-in.html

Warning: 5 pages long. Hope you like to read!

 

[bloomz]

What is the potential cost of buggering up your plumbing/electrical/construction work?

Are you saying duct tape isn't better than having poop all over your floor? :bouncy:

 

[RonBeyer]

Although they don't weigh as much in the search results as keywords, the number of links to your site should be as high as possible.

Here in northern Michigan there are probably a few dozen "business listings" sites that are free to join and I'd imagine just about anywhere else too. Although not many people use them to find merchants compared to search engines you still need to be there for those that do.

Blogs with a link to your website also seem to raise the search results.

If you use Quickbooks register on their user site. They do have specific industry bulletin boards, florists are listed. I have seen instances where just registering and posting a key phrase in your "Hello, I am...." will rate real high in the search results when you search for it.

 

[goldfish]

In a relatively small town, it's not difficult at all to rank high in Google/Yahoo. It's more or less automatic. If I can do it, me without any training/learning/whatsoever in SEO/html/etc, then I'm sure anyone can do it.

I found it much more difficult to rank high in the search results for our neighboring towns.

I created a whole bunch of pages, each corresponding to each neighboring town we deliver to. None of these pages consistently shows up in page 1 of Google search.

I think that's where the difference between amateurs and pros is most apparent. I've got to admire Wesley Berry here. His page shows up everywhere in Google search for our neighboring towns. I don't know how he does it.