Sad state of 'Help Wanted'

CHR

CHR

Design matters
Nov 28, 2002
8,951
8,442
113
Anaheim
www.avantegardens.com
State / Prov
CA
Craigslist ad from Phoenix 1-800-Flowers

Arizona Family Florist / 1-800-flowers is seeking Experienced Floral Designers to work at our Downtown Phoenix facility. The candidate must be have floral design experience and be willing to perform many different responsibilities including everyday production orders, sympathy orders, wedding work and much more.

We have full time and part time positions available with immediate availability. Pay is between $8.50- $12 per hour, depending on experience.

Applicants should have the following qualifications:

-Must have floral design experience
-Be friendly and professional
-Be presentable for customers
-Must be willing to learn about flowers
-Have availability starting at 7:00 am
-Be willing to work overtime at major holidays
-Be able to pass drug screening

Interested applicants can send your resume by replying to this post or apply in person from 9:00 am - 5:00 pm Monday through Friday at the Phoenix Design Center, located south of downtown Phoenix close to the airport. (NW corner of 16th St and I-17)

1-800-Flowers Phoenix Design Center
2050 South 16th Street
Suite #100
Phoenix, AZ 85034

We are a locally owned and operated business with good opportunities for advancement. We provide a full range of benefits including paid time off as well as Medical and Dental insurance available. Arizona Family Florist LLC is an equal opportunity employer.
Click to expand...
Emphasis in red mine.

Experienced Designers?

The lower end ($8.50/hr) falls below the poverty level income for a family of 3 in 2011 and barely goes above the line for a family of 2.

My head hurts and my heart aches when I read ads like this. H*ll, the franchisor I worked for paid top designers $20/hr back in the early 80's. This is a Mickey D wage and Mickey D doesn't even expect experience.

Sorry for the rant, but this type of wage is a sure way to depress income for other designer's, too. So much for the BS about 'floral artisans' and all the lovey dovey words about designs in that Undercover Boss episode.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Victoria, spentflowers, sandytf and 5 others
I've been afraid this was going to happen. There is no respect or even desire by the really large companies for artistry in floral design. It's the final outcome of flowers turning into a commodity, we've seen it happening as the web offerings continue to show consumers the same thing in different colors and consumers have become used to it as the norm.

And the design center part is exactly what I have been expecting. They will be popping up all over. Anybody who thinks the order gatherers are going to simply go away if everybody would just quit accepting and filling those orders is dead wrong and here is the proof.

You are completely right Cathy, this is going to have a huge effect on national average designer wages. The saddest part is that there will no longer be an incentive to learn and grow in the art of design if these "design" centers keep popping up. Why would anybody invest in their education if this is the pay they can expect.
 
I'm not surprised.... not at all.... is this a "florist" or just an LFC named "family florist"... time for the Phoenix folks to drop 800F

Heck, I'm looking for a permanent position full time designer, and starting wage is $10.00 for the first 30 DAYS if you have just about any experience and are trainable (and don't talk back)... tough to find here in the snow belt ;)
 
I like the line - must have floral design experience and then below says "must be willing to learn about flowers"? huh?
 
Oh this is pretty normal Cathy..And it so pisses me off. A few years ago when I was wanting to move to San Diego I found out very quickly that $9/hour is the most I could expect to start. Even with all my experience and all my awards and all I'd bring to a shop...$9/hr. Just sickening.

I was SO sad. I have to make a living wage doing what I do.

And right now I'm barely making it. Barely. I told Donnie he may have to get a job delivering pizzas in the evening during these slower months.

We haven't taken out a loan and I am so wanting to open a small studio. But I keep holding off just to see how it goes. If I had the added expense of studio or store front- I'd already be closed.
 
how else can they sell those $29.95 glories of spring bla bla bla.

maybe some day all those flower dabblers who have !!so much fun!! playing with flowers, will have folded their tent and those who feel we should get paid a living wage for our trade will be left....

yeah, I am just a "California dreamn', on such a winter's (like) day".....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hollywood
ok i'll be the witch today. 1-800 doesn't care about artistry, they are a business and are focused on profit not happy designers. I fired my clerk/bookkeeper a few weeks ago and my delivery guy that has been here 10 years, last day was yesterday. I'm hiring a young designer at 9.00 hr and she will deliver and help with everything else. She is also going to school 2 days a week. That is still$1.65 more an hour than her previous job. Anyone can be taught design but can anyone make a business successful or at least not give me a headache from all their @@@@@ing!
 
KABERS said:
Anyone can be taught design
Click to expand...

NOT TRUE!!!..............they can be taught to copy, like paint by numbers..................but DESIGN takes a special TALENT!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Victoria, lori042499, jean1953 and 10 others
Interesting thread, I read each of the posts twice. What I find interesting is that the blame for level of wages is in a large part laid at the feet of the advertiser.

As someone who has been in this industry for over three decades I will say that floral designers have always fell to the bottom of the wage scale in comparison to other industries that require an equivalent level of skill, this is not something that was instigated by 1-800 Flowers, it is simply a symptom of the industry at the retail level. I suspect that any retail sector that to a large degree is comprised of small "mom & pop" businesses would have the same problem. In fact over the years I have met many very qualified floral designers that would have given their right arm to get a permanent design position with a wire service. Why? Mainly because the wages and benefits were far better than they could ever hope for working for their neighborhood florist.

Something else that needs to be considered is that the ad in question is being run by an individual who owns and operates the business, someone just like every florist on this board, someone who is working hard to make a living, and someone who like any business person is watching costs. This individual is not doing anything that most other florists do not do themselves (note Bosses comment, he falls right in the middle). The fact that the individual running the ad flies the 1-800 banner should not mean that he is afforded additional criticism.

As a franchiser myself I can tell you that we do not dictate the pay levels for staff in our locations, as owner operated businesses they have to make these decisions themselves based on a number of factors such as , local market labor conditions (the going rate), skill and experience of employee's, and last but not least, what they can afford to pay. As well there is always a huge variance in what is considered fair depending on what part of the country your business operates in. I would suspect that a floral designer in Manhattan earns more than one in Bent Twig, Arkansas.

I would be interested to know from anyone who is critical of the pay rates in this ad what they actually pay their own staff.

Also, which they place first, their bottom line and paying their bills, or ensuring their employees a comfortable living wage. If it is the employee's do they pay more than the going rate to ensure this?

As for the comment "1-800 doesn't care about artistry", shake your head, I will point out again that the ad was run by a "locally owned business", by an individual working to make his business successful and to support his family. I would strongly suspect that they care very much about the quality and design of the product leaving their shop and going to local residents and potential customers. How can anyone possibly make a blanket statement about this individual without knowing them.

Lets see, in today's politically correct world we have gender bias, racial bias, cultural bias, sexual preference bias, income bias ("Occupy" whatever), all of these are considered bad things and people tend to look down on those that practice them. So, I would like to add two new ones, "WS Bias" and "OG Bias". These are biases towards anything that is associated, resembles, or even smells like a Wire Service or an OG. In many cases these biases are formed prior to even knowing the facts or having any information. Fortunately like the other biases mentioned these can usually be alleviated with an open mind and some education. Unfortunately, like many other biases and prejudices the individuals suffering from them have no interest in "being confused with facts, as their mind is already made up".

On a last note, I am not defending any wage, simply pointing out some of the inconsistencies that I see on this board anytime a WS or OG is involved in any way, shape, or form.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Knife's Wife, Bridgette, flst4evr and 1 other person
Doug Munro said:
Lets see, in today's politically correct world we have gender bias, racial bias, cultural bias, sexual preference bias, income bias ("Occupy" whatever), all of these are considered bad things and people tend to look down on those that practice them. So, I would like to add two new ones, "WS Bias" and "OG Bias". These are biases towards anything that is associated, resembles, or even smells like a Wire Service or an OG. In many cases these biases are formed prior to even knowing the facts or having any information. Fortunately like the other biases mentioned these can usually be alleviated with an open mind and some education. Unfortunately, like many other biases and prejudices the individuals suffering from them have no interest in "being confused with facts, as their mind is already made up".

On a last note, I am not defending any wage, simply pointing out some of the inconsistencies that I see on this board anytime a WS or OG is involved in any way, shape, or form.
Click to expand...

I agree with much of what you've said - especially as this appears to be a position primarily for filling 1-800-Flowers orders, not creating/managing/marketing design or unique work for their shop(s). It's probably more of an assembly position to paint by numbers - which is a valid position, and one that requires some skill but probably at the lower end of the design pay scale.

What I really wanted to comment on, though, is your mention of WS Bias. Within the past week I've had the opportunity to twice speak at florist conventions / shows, and both times I've addressed the issue of Confirmation Bias. We're all quite happy to think that we have the best flowers / designs / staff / service / insight ... but in an old industry that's changing rapidly we need to confront our confirmation bias tendencies and look at everything​ with fresh eyes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CHR, duanermb and shannonlovesflowers
I agree with Doug too (dang it)... and just for clarification Doug... that's my **starting wage** for a somewhat trainable semi-skilled potential designer.

The wire service side does not necessarily affect the wage argument, however 800's LFC's do operate under a different dynamic, at least the one I'm very familiar with in Boston. Designers, and yes they are designers, come in, make the designs and go home, it's not a retail operation per se, the designs funnel to the retail stores... no design on site...
 
KABERS said:
Well I don't feel properly spanked yet, Thankyou sir may I have another! I saw 1-800 fill facility not flower shop.
Click to expand...

I sort of got the feeling that you fired the 'team' and hired new because the old team were complainers.
 
Shannon, As an owner of your own business that is struggling, maybe you can understand why even with your excellent skills and credentials you were not being offered the wage you expected when you worked for someone else. It's a very tough situation from both sides of the business. I would love to pay my help better, but it's not possible. I try to make up for that by being the best boss ever! I have s very low turn over in help so it must be working to some extent. Still my 5 year plan is to be able to pay myself and 1 designer better. By Feb. I hope to give my designer a raise. All retail jobs are low pay but we expect alot more of our help in our flower shops than the cashier at the gift shop. I wish I had the solution.
 
  • Like
Reactions: theRKF and sandytf
concord said:
Shannon, As an owner of your own business that is struggling, maybe you can understand why even with your excellent skills and credentials you were not being offered the wage you expected when you worked for someone else. It's a very tough situation from both sides of the business. I would love to pay my help better, but it's not possible. I try to make up for that by being the best boss ever! I have s very low turn over in help so it must be working to some extent. Still my 5 year plan is to be able to pay myself and 1 designer better. By Feb. I hope to give my designer a raise. All retail jobs are low pay but we expect alot more of our help in our flower shops than the cashier at the gift shop. I wish I had the solution.
Click to expand...

I really just think that most shops, even if they have a high volume, don't pay much. I think $20 is pretty much top pay anywhere. But I furthur think that most shops don't pay more than $12- even for designers like me.

The most I was ever paid per hour was $16.50.

Working for myself I make an average of $35/hr....I just need a lot more hours! :)
 
The reality is there is no simple solution. For years, myself and different groups have been harping about "Industry Certification" for designers (akin to AIFD). Unfortunately it always hits the same wall, how can you expect individuals to upgrade their skills and education so that they can continue to earn entry level wages, by the same token as an industry at the retail level the revenue is simply not there to pay designers comparable wages to tradesmen,

Maybe someone on this board has an answer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: theRKF, sandytf, concord and 1 other person
Doug Munro said:
The reality is there is no simple solution. For years, myself and different groups have been harping about "Industry Certification" for designers (akin to AIFD). Unfortunately it always hits the same wall, how can you expect individuals to upgrade their skills and education so that they can continue to earn entry level wages, by the same token as an industry at the retail level the revenue is simply not there to pay designers comparable wages to tradesmen,

Maybe someone on this board has an answer.
Click to expand...

Yup- I agree! That's why I put becoming AIFD, not only on the back burner, but totally off the stove. I figured- what the hell for? I'm a good designer and I keep up with trends.


I do however like to take classes. That keeps me motivated...But I just don't see the financial benefits of being AIFD.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Victoria, Tuberose and concord
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back