same old same old websites...

[shannonlovesflowers]

I used to not care too much about websites. I cared more about making groovy floral arrangements. I figured if you had a website, that's good enough. yeah, I don't think that anymore.

Cathy's talk about websites all the time has me excited about them. I'm even thinking of going to school to learn to be a web developer... or what ever you call them.

So since I'm so interested in this I thought I'd check out some flower shop websites.
Boy, what a shock.

Almost 90% of them I looked at were TF templates. AND out of the 90% MOST of them had the same stuff on their home page.
stupid summertime splash.....
No, not really a stupid arrangement. It's a cute cube arrangement. It's just that almost every website I went to guess what I saw first.

So I got to thinking....
If I were a regular old customer shopping around, why would I choose one shop over the other?
And if I were a BRIDE why would I choose one shop over the other.

We are lucky, no other TF shop here. But even so we have our own stuff on our TF website as well as our other site. And theres no TF stuff on our non TF site at all. And don't get me wrong, we need to do a lot to our website as well, we just have a little extra advantage with being the only TF shop here.

So then I started wondering some more.... I wonder if the peeps who have a TF template know that they can put their own stuff on the site?

well, just in case ya don't know, you can. Just wanted to let you all know that, ESPECIALLY if you live in a big city. I went looking at the shops in one of my old hoods, and it was kinda sad for me.
The one website I found that was different...it was a beautiful site, just so-so designs. In my opinion at least.

Just throwing that out there-

 

[RWK]

My sentiments exactly. In my viewpoint, the website IS AN EXTENSION of your sales staff, your shop image, your shop style, your shop ambiance. It should feature the same logos as your business cards, your stationary.

I was perusing a florist website earlier today....from a new applicant no less, - What do I see,
The first row of items on the first page, in essence the first thing people see, is a entire row with stuff that is fed-ex delivered. It wasn't till the second or third row of items that we saw florist delivered flowers.

I was visiting another FC member site and this is a myspace site. What is the first thing I see.....A huge google sponsored ad for 800-flowers.

My point is this and I think it is what you are trying to get across Shannon. It is my opinion that as much thought, attention, and detail should be given to your website as to the arrangements you make.

There is a sticky thread that has listing after listing after listing of cool, unique, flower shop website on FC. You should peruse some of those. To me, one of the best, most well designed, well thught out, most successful websites is Randy's. www.oberers.com

 

[SpringCity]

I agree about websites.

I also thought I wanted to do web design but after starting the process and taking a couple of classes, realized all that CODE would kill me if I had to look at it day after day. :wide: but that's me!

 

[Joe Mioux]

Yes, I did know you can put your own arrangements on a TF website.

Actually, you could take all TF products of the template and place 100 pct your own flower arrangements on a WS template.

That is nothing different than an independent site.

so the argument that you have to move away from a WS template site isn't really a true statement.

The advantage, as I see it, comes from making the change to an independent site to save money on hosting fees and per order fees that the Ws's impose on every order you receive via Dove. I don't believe they can get fees on orders phoned in by the customer.

Another point, there has always been a lot of talk about making one's own site unique. Again that is fine but sometimes not necessary if that means moving away from a WS site. I am speaking in terms of uniqueness. If you are the only shop in your market to have a TF website, then you are offering a unique mix of flowers. ... The arrangements are not your original pieces, but nonetheless, they are unique as they are viewed by your customers in your market.

So, if your a shop is in that position and the fees are bothering you I see no reason to switch.

The reason I do see to make the leap is when the fees become excessive.

TF does a pretty decent job with SEO marketing and the webinars on the subject are also good. I know this because I have been told a few times that I rank pretty well on the search engines.

a third point, sometimes the WS sites are better looking, more professionally laid out than an independent site. I guess that falls under Buyer Beware and use diligence in your web marketing.

a fourth point, what happens when an independent web vendor sells his template to several flowers shops in the same city? I don't see that as being any different that a WS selling its templates to more than one shop in the same city.

The arrangements make the sites unique, whether they are WS images in a non competitive environment or one's own arrangements.

joe

 

[Sarah Botchick]

Ricky and Shannon, you are both absolutely right. Everytime I go to so many of the standard TF websites, I want to scream. And then I want to send the people an email telling them about Ryan and Strider. There are so many awesome florists that we work with that have these standard TF websites. It makes me sad because I know the florists are much more talented than what they are showing.

As someone who went to school for web development though, I will tell you that Robin is right. Though you don't technically need coding skills with programs like Dreamweaver out there, you really do need them. Sometimes code gets mixed up and you have to fix it.

Shannon, you are obviously a talented floral designer, just from the designs you have posted on here, and what you have told us. Stick with flowers. Leave the web developing to a geek. You will be happier. I promise you.

 

[theRKF]

Yes, I did know you can put your own arrangements on a TF website.

Actually, you could take all TF products of the template and place 100 pct your own flower arrangements on a WS template.

That is nothing different than an independent site.

so the argument that you have to move away from a WS template site isn't really a true statement.

The advantage, as I see it, comes from making the change to an independent site to save money on hosting fees and per order fees that the Ws's impose on every order you receive via Dove. I don't believe they can get fees on orders phoned in by the customer.

Another point, there has always been a lot of talk about making one's own site unique. Again that is fine but sometimes not necessary if that means moving away from a WS site. I am speaking in terms of uniqueness. If you are the only shop in your market to have a TF website, then you are offering a unique mix of flowers. ... The arrangements are not your original pieces, but nonetheless, they are unique as they are viewed by your customers in your market.

So, if your a shop is in that position and the fees are bothering you I see no reason to switch.

The reason I do see to make the leap is when the fees become excessive.

TF does a pretty decent job with SEO marketing and the webinars on the subject are also good. I know this because I have been told a few times that I rank pretty well on the search engines.

a third point, sometimes the WS sites are better looking, more professionally laid out than an independent site. I guess that falls under Buyer Beware and use diligence in your web marketing.

joe

Ah, Joe ... anyone can rank in a market with no competition.

Is there even another florist in your town with a website?

Ryan

(TF's SEO = teh suck, IMHO)

 

[RWK]

For the record......I have seen template sites that look fabulous, and I have seen custom sites that look awful.

The advantage I see to template sites, is that for the most part......with the exception of deciding what pictures you want on there ( your own or ws ) and setting the price.....the work is done for you.

Whether you use a template site or a custom site.....I still feel Joe that the look, the feel, the images, the text, the logos, the overall look and feel of the site should be a direct reflection of your actual Brick and Mortar store.

 

[Joe Mioux]

Ah, Joe ... anyone can rank in a market with no competition.

Is there even another florist in your town with a website?

Ryan

(TF's SEO = teh suck, IMHO)

OK TF SEO sucks... bTw, i added some more thoughts that you may want to comment on also.

 

[theRKF]

a third point, sometimes the WS sites are better looking, more professionally laid out than an independent site. I guess that falls under Buyer Beware and use diligence in your web marketing.

Yes, WS sites are professionally designed and look much better than most DIY stuff. If you're using an indie provider, I hope they have professional designers, and implement usability data into the design process.

a fourth point, what happens when an independent web vendor sells his template to several flowers shops in the same city? I don't see that as being any different that a WS selling its templates to more than one shop in the same city.

Yes, that's true. We have an unofficial policy about selling the same template within the same town. It's not an iron-clad rule, mostly because it's subject to human error )) but it's our guideline. If someone requests a template that's in use in their town, we won't allow it.

We're also releasing a few more template designs in the coming weeks, to bring our total to (D.V.) 8 or more template options.

The arrangements make the sites unique, whether they are WS images in a non competitive environment or one's own arrangements.

joe

Joe, the content, design and products make the site unique. If you have a different template but the same default TF About Us text, are you really any better off?

I make the case again and again that a website is like a second retail location. Likely, more people will see your website in a day than real people will walk into your store. If you spend an hour a day on merch display in your store, you should spend at least an hour on website content (text, images, products. blogging, Twitter, articles, something).

While it's nice to be the only florist in town that ranks well, that just means you're in a market ripe for the picking. The first person who tries will own the rankings in that kind of market - it's easy to be displaced.

Ryan

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

Joe,
I never said you had to move totally away from the TF template.
I've edited our site a lot. I took a bunch of stuff off that not "Aprils-ish"
AND I change the prices to what they need to be here in Durango.

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

For the record......I have seen template sites that look fabulous, and I have seen custom sites that look awful.

The advantage I see to template sites, is that for the most part......with the exception of deciding what pictures you want on there ( your own or ws ) and setting the price.....the work is done for you.

Whether you use a template site or a custom site.....I still feel Joe that the look, the feel, the images, the text, the logos, the overall look and feel of the site should be a direct reflection of your actual Brick and Mortar store.

That's a big hell yeah!

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

Yes, WS sites are professionally designed and look much better than most DIY stuff. If you're using an indie provider, I hope they have professional designers, and implement usability data into the design process.



Yes, that's true. We have an unofficial policy about selling the same template within the same town. It's not an iron-clad rule, mostly because it's subject to human error )) but it's our guideline. If someone requests a template that's in use in their town, we won't allow it.

We're also releasing a few more template designs in the coming weeks, to bring our total to (D.V.) 8 or more template options.



Joe, the content, design and products make the site unique. If you have a different template but the same default TF About Us text, are you really any better off?

I make the case again and again that a website is like a second retail location. Likely, more people will see your website in a day than real people will walk into your store. If you spend an hour a day on merch display in your store, you should spend at least an hour on website content (text, images, products. blogging, Twitter, articles, something).

While it's nice to be the only florist in town that ranks well, that just means you're in a market ripe for the picking. The first person who tries will own the rankings in that kind of market - it's easy to be displaced.

Ryan

And then get this...

On the "about us" page it all say the same thing.
boooo!!!!!!

 

[theRKF]

And then get this...

On the "about us" page it all say the same thing.
boooo!!!!!!

Ya, I think I mentioned that somewhere ...

In my opening presentation for Floral Summit I showed how searching for a big block of text from an example TF florist's About Us page returned over 12,000 matches. And that's just the ones that managed to be in the index.

It's just shameful.

Ryan

 

[LJVF]

The arrangements make the sites unique, whether they are WS images in a non competitive environment or one's own arrangements.

joe

Joe I agree with most of what you say, except would like to point out something about uniqueness. A lot of those who are in favor of using unique images aren't only trying to separate from their local competition, but also the OG's. Probably every OG site use the same ws cookie cutters.

Now whether a florists unique images look or sell better than the ws cookie cutters is a whole different debate.

 

[Victoria]

Shannon, what's the web address for April's?

V

 

[Joe Mioux]

Joe I agree with most of what you say, except would like to point out something about uniqueness. A lot of those who are in favor of using unique images aren't only trying to separate from their local competition, but also the OG's. Probably every OG site use the same ws cookie cutters.

Now whether a florists unique images look or sell better than the ws cookie cutters is a whole different debate.

I will save bloomzie from saying it.

and.... Why do all the Og's used ws templates? because they sell.

so if they sell should they be used on sites, both indie and WS template?

Shannon, I was just making some observations re: templates and unique product. There are at least two decisions that need to be made. Use a WS template and product or use a independent and unique arrangements. After that there are the hybrid versions between these two extremes.

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

Joe,
Yep, On our Old schluterfloral.com site it's totally hybrid. We need more images, but I have a sneaking suspicion that site will no longer be around for much more......

Victoria,
Aprils site is www.durangoflorist.com
That site is still being worked on as well. It drives me crazy that there isn't more floral images on there. But I'm not in charge of that.
The thing I like about our new site the most (so far) is you can see the inside of our store. I think the vibe of our store is fantastic. People linger and always buy something. I'd want to buy from our store if I never shopped there before.

 

[CHR]

I will save bloomzie from saying it.

and.... Why do all the Og's used ws templates? because they sell.

It's primarily because they don't fulfill themselves and need local shops to have easy access to 'their' catalog.

(Point of clarification: They use WS products - affiliate images. If they use a WS template, most are highly customized and SEO'd far better than the off-the-shelf versions.)

But some of the big OGs have started adding their own pictures, especially on the low end to offer more variety under $29.95.

 

[bloomz]

Yeah what Cathy said - Joe meant to say (for me) wire service products, images, best sellers, cookie cutterz.

We make great in house designs, but you really can't beat the cookies for sellability, and yes I include the "unique" stuff - all things such as image quality, appeal, fillability, etc., considered.

I would love to see someone do a (fair) comparison test on how a unique design would outsell a (good) wire service best seller. Something like 800flowers Fields of Europe say. Can anyone create something that would outsell that?

 

[Joe Mioux]

800 uses their own images & product (think Birthday cake) and then sends it via TF. and no i am not 800.

Grocery stores are doing the same thing now. They send us their custom unique arrangements and then we have to find their websites to find out what the hell they are talking about.

from the standpoint of continuity across the country that isn't necessarily a bad thing. The customer knows what the recipient is supposed to receive. However, that is nothing different than using the selection guides.... like it or not.

What is the difference between a flower shop that has it's own custom designs and then sends those items via WS to other shops? That is the same thing as the WS only on very small level.

joe