Florists For Change

BBJ I feel your pain. I can't tell you how many times FTD.com sent me that arrangement for an AM funeral and when I CALLED (not merc'd) them and ask them to call the customer and ask for just an all white arrange, or pink lilies for a lady's service they just canceled instead of making the phone call. I also know that after they canceled with me they sent to another shop in town who just fills anything anyhow and fights the complaints. It is so frustrating to sit and watch a customer getting ripped off.

I have a grocery store 1 block away from my store. You can look out my showroom window and see their sign. I disagree that the customer does not care. They do care, they just don't know their is a difference because you don't TELL THEM. At V-Day this year I bought 500 40cm red roses and split them into C&C dozens, nothing but leather and roses in a celo funnel. I sold those for $25 and 60cm wrapped in paper with greens and wax for $50 a dozen. I had 2 dozen cheap roses left after V-day. I only bought the 40s to justify my C&C rose banner outside the store. I expected to sell out on the first day. I outsold the cheap roses with premium wraps by a mile. Customers want value. Price is secondary.

When someone comes in and says they can get a dozen roses for $15 at the Bi-Lo, I tell them that they can't get THESE roses. Then I tell them that Bi-Lo sells their flowers so cheap because their guy comes in to buy all the crap leftover after "my guy" has bought all the good stuff. (that may be what really happens :p) The customer is in my store, so they want flowers. I usually make the sale

I wish that people were lined out my door all day, but they are not. I don't think they are lining up to buy flowers at the Bi-Lo either though because I actually shop there and don't see much inventory moving in the floral dept. Most of my business is delivery. My non-holiday walk-in business is icing on the cake. Bi-Lo is just not what I worry about right now.

FYI Bi-Lo bought 4 stalls at our last bridal show. They had some decent designs in their catalogue and a nice looking booth, but it was all manned by 50 year old men who were grocery store managers in their Bi-Lo shirts and ties. I'm just not worried.
 
Okay, so now that I have some more time, more on that "test" design I ordered. Because I was the consumer, I got to see it all and I got to see who actually filled the order so I called the owner. She looked it up, it was sent through FTD.

She was given $35, $7 MORE than what I, the consumer, paid.

Yes, more than I paid.

The order simply read bright, springy fresh cuts in a glass vase. No picture. We looked at it on line together and she laughed outright at what I ordered, and who in their right mind would not at $14.99? Had she seen a picture of what was sold for that price, she would have rejected.

So let's chase that money.....if we can.

I paid $27.98. No sales tax.
She was "given" $35 for flowers and delivery. She will actually receive $25.55.

The middleman received $27.98 and they "gave" her $35.00, if you are doing the math, that is $7 MORE than what they actually got from me.

Their commission on the $35 sale is $7 because they gave her $35. If they had sent the $27.98, they would keep $5.60 commission.

FOLLOWING? By upping the money to her, they at least break even. SAVVY. Then, if there is a rebate, they made money anyway. The florist on the other hand, got reamed. Badly. It would even be worse if I had emailed that picture I took. She would have gotten a cancel.

I would get my $27.98, she would be out her product.

The facilitator? They would get credited $35, so they just made a cool $7 minimum on a canceled order. Pretty cool, huh?
 
.......Bi-Lo bought 4 stalls at our last bridal show. They had some decent designs in their cataloger and a nice looking booth, but it was all manned by 50 year old men who were grocery store managers in their Bi-Lo shirts and ties. I'm just not worried.

Good pointer here. Florists are not matching the product to the buyer. We had a "Meet me at Panera" campaign for brides that my 23 year old daughter ran for years. The last Monday night of each month she would meet potential brides at Panera and talk wedding/girl talk. No sales, just buy a bagel, coffee and chat. After several weeks the brides would then start migrating into the flower shop with over a 50% conversion rate. Wow, great wedding work!! My daughter moved away to college, I tried the meeting and no brides or very few brides would show up. It worked because of my daughters age and "relateability" to the brides. I'm the process of doing a study, I think "big box" stores sell the flowers because they are mass casual (blog from 2 months ago posted on here) and 50% are impulse buys. Over 80% of American buyers are impulse buyers to some degree. So we need to match the product to the buyer as Keith wrote a few posts ago. Grocery stores don't bother me either.
 
Chiming in as a grocery store here.....
There are getting to be as many different versions of "grocery store florist" as there are "brick and mortar florist". There are the Walmart versions which are basically bucket sales. They offer few services but sometimes have decent quality depending on the store. As a matter of fact, here's an article that claims Trader Joe's actually has BETTER quality than traditional floral outlets:
http://moneywatch.bnet.com/spending/article/6-things-to-buy-at-trader-joes/6191657/
As long as the floral dept. has someone who knows what they're doing....the quality can often be superior to a brick and mortar shop because of the quick turnover.

Then there are places like Costco and Sam's that offer wedding packages and drop ship delivery
http://www.costco.com/Common/Catego...pnav=&cat=90371&eCat=bc|3605|90371&lang=en-US
They also cater to the DIYer by offering bulk buying. I can't speak for myself, but I've heard reports that Costco has pretty good quality.

And then there is the category that we fall into: full service shops located within a grocery store. Contrary to popular opinion, this is a fairly large category.
In Wisconsin, I know of many independent stores and chains that have well run, full service depts including Sendik's, Sentry, Hy-Vee and more. These stores (as well as ours) have experienced designers and florists running them. At our state floral association conventions and shows the attendance has always had a large percentage of grocery store representation.

As far as mark-up, it varies on the product. Our cash and carry bouquets are at about a 45% gross. Most of our cash and carry items are on a standing order for the best price although we change the amount we get frequently depending on locations and time of the year. Single stems are marked considerably higher.

My mantra is this: It doesn't matter where you are, what matters is WHAT you do and how well you do it. Grocery store florists shouldn't be lumped into one big group any more than all brick and mortar shops. And don't discount them as no serious competition. Some of you may currently be in markets that don't have the full service grocery store florists, but when the combination of location, price, and service come together it can be fierce!
 
I googled "Ottawa Florist" and 10 real local florists came up in the google places section. They all have websites. If you had decided to use a middle man, my guess is you would have googled "Ottawa Florist" then you could pay $15 extra to use one of the OGs that pop up on Adwords (Teleflora, Canadaflowers.ca, Bloomavenue, goflorist etc) and they would have sent your order to one of the 10 shops listed on Google places, or they may have sent it to the one with the wilted flowers. If you are going to purchase from a random flower shop, why not save yourself the $15 service fee? The middleman is unnecessary.

Also, online business is not like B&M business. Would you really pay Shoppers more for toilet paper if they were right next to the Walmart. How about if their rent was higher?

Actually a better analogy is would you pay Shoppers a higher price for a roll of Charmin Ultra then accept a roll of Walmart generic brand?

That would chap my a$$

Hi Jamie. Don't want to Derail the direction the thread has gotten back on too much, so I'll be brief. What happened to me in Ottawa the other day was real. I called one of those florists with a site, and the number lead nowhere. Running out of time I drove to "Flowers and Cakes" in the west end, with wilted flowers. They never told me that on the phone. At that point I really started scrambling, and by the time I had flowers in hand just short of 6pm, I had been at it almost 1.5 hours. Something in there was broken too, it wasn't easy to find a florist in the west end of the city at that time that I had long stem roses.

I thought more about the concept of a $50 bouquet sold for $50, and that same bouquet sold for $70. The question I have for you, is how is the worth of something determined? In real estate your house is "worth" what someone is willing to pay for it. On some islands in the world a person wouldn't trade you a goat for a diamond. I think this concept that an arrangement being sold for $70 online as being stealing is probably not really true. That bouquet is worth what people will pay for it. And you can go in ANY industry and see this. 100%+ gaps in what people can sell retail items. Why would flowers be different?

Like I said before though, fundamentally I have a problem with people paying $70 and getting a product that is inferior to the one you're doing for $50. And if you're saying that happens on MOST online orders, well that's just wrong. And I hope this meeting in Vegas is the start of a path that fixes these things. If you guys got several hundred of you together,you could do it. I don't see why you couldn't.
 
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One more thing about grocery store florists....WE are dealing with many of the same issues the brick and mortar florists are dealing with. I would venture to guess that most grocery stores have incoming wire orders as a smaller percentage of their overall sales than their b & m counterparts due to higher walk in sales, but the issue remains. We dropped FTD about a year and a half ago because we just couldn't keep losing money with them. Contrary to another popular opinion I've often heard: We are a "for profit" department in the store. We are not just a loss leader to get the customers in the door. We take up valuable real estate in the store and are expected to be profitable. We wouldn't be around for long if we weren't.

I encourage those of you organizing the meeting to be open minded to grocery store florists. It's not a situation of you against us....we're all in the same boat and there can be some powerful numbers added to the group with full service grocery florists.
 
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Excellent point regarding the "relateability" which, I think, applies as much when dealing with other scenarios, especially if you are looking for higher price points and the more affluent customer - how you & your staff dress, the ambience in your shop and "little things" such as the outward appearance of delivery vehicle(s) all count.
 
Sandy,
If you are a full service florist with premium quality product that does custom orders and same day delivery then I don't think you need to be put into the category of grocery store. You may be in a location that has hundreds of walk-ins a day, you may be able to buy at a fraction of the price I do and dominate market share because your parent company has collective bargaining, you may be able to recruit the best talent because of corporate benefits. I still don't worry about you. Because (thank God!) you are in Wisconsin! :p
 
She was given $35, $7 MORE than what I, the consumer, paid.

So let's chase that money.....if we can.

I paid $27.98. No sales tax.
She was "given" $35 for flowers and delivery. She will actually receive $25.55.

The middleman received $27.98 and they "gave" her $35.00, if you are doing the math, that is $7 MORE than what they actually got from me.

Their commission on the $35 sale is $7 because they gave her $35. If they had sent the $27.98, they would keep $5.60 commission.

FOLLOWING? By upping the money to her, they at least break even. SAVVY. Then, if there is a rebate, they made money anyway.

The facilitator? They would get credited $35, so they just made a cool $7 minimum on a canceled order. Pretty cool, huh?

Got to send $35 to qualify for that rebate, right?

I'm sure I know that picture ... was it from Flowers99.com?

Cuz y'all know who that really is, right? ...
 
Oh yeah...that's Randys site.

Check it out, it's interesting. I wouldn't fill anything listed.
And yes for 14.99 Linda got the value in the vase as she said.

Randy's good at marketing his regular site, but I just don't get this one. Seems to me to be a complaint waiting to happen.

Ryan your the SEO guy, how would that site benefit him if it does?
 
Ryan your the SEO guy, how would that site benefit him if it does?

It benefits him by generating a high volume of cheap orders that are profitable primarily because of the significant rebates he gets from the WS for being a big sender.

Linda broke down the math well: Send $35 = $28 out of pocket (therefore essentially breaking even on the $27.98 collected).
The $7 rebate (I believe that's pretty close to what he's getting from FTD at the moment) is pure profit.

Meantime, the consumer is educated to think that this arrangement is worth only $14.99, even though the florist had to fill to $35. He looks like a hero, and everyone else takes it in the ... chin?
 
Got to send $35 to qualify for that rebate, right?

I'm sure I know that picture ... was it from Flowers99.com?

Cuz y'all know who that really is, right? ...


Frekin interesting..I learn some new friggen gimick every day in this industry...who in the world thinks this crap up....I will never make any money doing things on the up and up....what does everyone need to be a slime ball to get ahead...this kind of stuff just makes me angry and not because I am jealous that I don't think these things up, but because I would never even if I did think it up, I could never ever do that kind of stuff...
maybe my shrink is right I am just too good for my own good...
 
It's not a gimmick, Lori...it's just business sense.

Charge the customer $30...send the filler $40.

Forget any rebate.

Sender gets 20% commission ($8.00) and charges $14.99 service charge for a total of $22.99.

Sender pays the $10.00 difference ($40 to the filler; $30 charged to the customer)...AND STILL POCKETS $12.99.

AND THIS TYPE OF WIRE SERVICE MATH HAS ALWAYS BEEN AVAILABLE TO ANY WIRE SERVICE MEMBER...SO WHY ISN'T IT BEING DONE MORE OFTEN???
 
It's not a gimmick, Lori...it's just business sense.

Charge the customer $30...send the filler $40.

Forget any rebate.

Sender gets 20% commission ($8.00) and charges $14.99 service charge for a total of $22.99.

Sender pays the $10.00 difference ($40 to the filler; $30 charged to the customer)...AND STILL POCKETS $12.99.

AND THIS TYPE OF WIRE SERVICE MATH HAS ALWAYS BEEN AVAILABLE TO ANY WIRE SERVICE MEMBER...SO WHY ISN'T IT BEING DONE MORE OFTEN???

Might make sense money wise, but it is total bull@@@@....it is lies and it is fudging of numbers and what is wrong with the industry and why flowers shops look like we gouge our customers....when the customer see 14.99 yet is getting a 35.00 arrangement in the end game it makes our real live price of 35.00 look ludacrous when and if they bother shopping around....well that is ok, whne there are no more florists to fill these rediculous scammy fake priced behind the scenes manipulated orders, even the big will crash, because I can tell you right now, business sense or not, I would never be able to engage in that kind of crap, it is not good for the guys who work hard every day to make a living useing honest and real pricing...period....maybe I am a little jealous that I am a person of morals and feel that the price of something should be the price and people should know what they are paying for and get exactly that....it is smoke and mirrors and is no better a tactic that what the wire services engage in, it is damaging to the industry on the whole and gives the buying public a sense that flowers at flower shops are expensive...when they really aren't they are priced in a way that we can make a living barely...screw rebates, rebates only make it possible for deciet, lies and manipulation not a way I ever want to run my business and one reason I will never be a millionaire not in this world anyway...I made that determination a long time ago....and yes it is available to us all, and maybe we are all too stupid to figure it out, but I bet even if many us did figure it out or wanted to bend the numbers, most wouldn't act upon it.....because we have greater integrity for the truth of what we sell and wouldn't want to mislead our customers, much the same reason many of us don't want to deal with wire ins or outs anymore, because you just cannot trust what the other florist has sold, promised, misconstrued or manipulated.....this is the very reason many florists don't even want to take any direct orders....see even real florists can suck eggs...not just ogs....Wow, I haven't had an emotional rant like this in a while, but this gets me..this just gets me...
 
Lori, It gets me, too. I truely miss the way it used to be when we could make an honest living being honest. The deceit runs rampant in this and I suspect many other industries. It's not how I choose to run my life or my business, but I can't do anything about the industry, so I am trying not to care so much.
 
This kind of math still only works for large sending shops. All the wire service monthly fees eat up any potential profit of small shops. It's not worth it! Are there any statistics on the # of shops that are over $300,000. versus under and also over 1 mil.
 
But this system is not sustainable, as we are seeing. Just do an honest job, be frugal in your business, market to the people in your base and hold on for dear life. The filling florists who continue to support the wires will be bled until they have to close shop. It is sad, but means more business for those of us who survive
 
Well now this makes sense I could not figure out Randy's logic last week on the florists for change face book page. He was not rational at best. If this group is successful in enacting change they will have pretty well crippled that web site. Now I know why he took his ball and went home last week.
 
Well now this makes sense I could not figure out Randy's logic last week on the florists for change face book page. He was not rational at best. If this group is successful in enacting change they will have pretty well crippled that web site. Now I know why he took his ball and went home last week.

Steve,

I did appreciate the fact that Randy was saying stuff that might happen if this deal went through, howevere it makes me mad that everything he said left out the fact of how much it would affect his particular venture and he spun it so that it looked to affect the whole industry in his assessment, gee I guess he has the same kind of marketing people working with him that the wire service people do..
 
Everybody is all for change....except when it effects them.

A sad commentary on human nature.

Once in a while we see individuals who rise above it, we did when this nation was formed in 1776, and we can if the florists who meet in Las Vegas can agree to "Do the right thing"

Keith