http://floralmanagement.safnow.org/....aspx?id=37&pageId=4&refid=266177&s=undefined
and there we go.....
and there we go.....
SAF and their stand on Order Gathering
- Thread starter Kristine
- Start date
lori042499
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- May 3, 2006
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J has taken this on on his facebook page and is getting a whole lot of response to it...I think it is great and hope that more regular people will see it...florist need to remember to share it on their pages and have a bit to say to personalize it so the message spreads, those who care will read those hwo don't care are a lost cause anyway...I thik it is tme for the consumer to know and understand that their buying habits cause a ripple effect, something they don't always think of...look at buy local, who would have ever known or thought you have to remind people to buy from their local shops in order to keep main street up and running...
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
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Wow. I think it's pretty ridiculous that they are not taking into consideration how much money the consumer loses in wiring fees and therefore how much
dissatisfaction occurs as a result of wire orders. This is hurting the industry as a whole by giving flowers a reputation of being too expensive. People feel like they spend $50 and get a tiny arrangement and they stop ordering at all because the filling florist only got a small portion of that $50 in the end. I think it's way better to educate the consumer so that they understand that if they call and give the whole $50 directly to a florist, they will get something nicer.
Why on earth would I want to be an order gatherer anyway and risk so many customers being unhappy and feeling that I am to blame because they placed the order with me? I don't wire flowers because of the simple fact that I don't want to be held responsible for what other florists are sending out because I only have control over what I do.
I can't believe SAF would suggest that in order to compete with order gatherers, I should become one. lol.
I just can't understand how on earth it would help my business to wire flowers all over the place for people for a small chunk of money. I mean, I think it's just absurd to continue a method of sending flowers that should have become obsolete with the invention of the internet.
Was this article written recently?
dissatisfaction occurs as a result of wire orders. This is hurting the industry as a whole by giving flowers a reputation of being too expensive. People feel like they spend $50 and get a tiny arrangement and they stop ordering at all because the filling florist only got a small portion of that $50 in the end. I think it's way better to educate the consumer so that they understand that if they call and give the whole $50 directly to a florist, they will get something nicer.
Why on earth would I want to be an order gatherer anyway and risk so many customers being unhappy and feeling that I am to blame because they placed the order with me? I don't wire flowers because of the simple fact that I don't want to be held responsible for what other florists are sending out because I only have control over what I do.
I can't believe SAF would suggest that in order to compete with order gatherers, I should become one. lol.
I just can't understand how on earth it would help my business to wire flowers all over the place for people for a small chunk of money. I mean, I think it's just absurd to continue a method of sending flowers that should have become obsolete with the invention of the internet.
Was this article written recently?
bootcampguy
Well-Known Member
I have no problem with any store being the "florist of choice" for any company, person , anywhere. I have numerous large comm accounts not in my city, but to get that account I first filled an order "locally" and then "marketed" my self and services. Our store line is if we can't do it for you, then here's who can (local florist). By saying "we all should be like them".......not for me. So yes, they call me and I send the orders out. I had an argument 2 eeeks ago with a VP of an OG and she said "please don't tell my employees the wrong information". She further said, "we are all florist trying to make it". I told her that she and I are nothing alike. I told her on the next call to answer the phones this way. "thank you for calling XYZ, located in a basement in a building no where near you, you saw our undervalued picture/flowers not available on our mis-leading website, we will take your order and your money, but not fill the order, we then will try to get a full service florist to fill the under-valued order and then offer no real customer satif gaur. (unless the filling florist gives money back). We will make any prrmise to you to get that CC number and then charge you $12.95 - $15.95 for a service fee. " I told her I think 90% of the people would hang up and find someone else to call". That is an OG........No-one wnats to step on any toes.......get fees from everyone......is the new model and be "accepting" as to business model they are in......
Thats not at all what he is saying.. He is stating you should extend your current web operations to be more appealing to all not just your home town. It is virtually impossible to compete financially with the big guys but if expensive service charges is your issue dont charge or charge less. Just be competitive. By no means am I a supporter of the "OG" and I am totally against the deceptive advertising that some do. As Peter said your internet web site needs to be an extension of your business dont give up your grass roots just get more involved as this new " All about me" consumer is just that. Give them a reason to buy from you and not the "OG". We need to stop complaining and be more proactive in your marketing efforts to have a chance at those "All About Me" consumers. Also do your math 20% plus a service charge and rebate is much more profitable than an incoming order neting 1-3% if you are lucky. Good Luck moving forward....
Hal
lori042499
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Unfortunatly, ordergather has such bad connotations that send so many florists off the deepend...order gatherers i the traditional sense are really florsl brokers, they gather the sale and resell it...not a true florist in any sense...just like ticket brokers and realestate brokers they work purely on the percentage glean from the original sale paid for buy the consumer...we have been doing this for years with our wire outs, it is good money and they(og's) get it...we should be striving to offer our customers better along the lines of service they recieve in this arena and strive for better results on the delivering end of it....just do it better...also along the lines of web service, we should be striving to sell our selves farther than our home towns, not tell people we are from theirs but not do it at all, the web is global we should be marketing it globally and giving the consumer the choice of who they want and on the other end we can choose to fill or not to fill for companies agressively competeing in our local area, if you choose not to fill for them in hopes they will stop marketing your area, then that is biz, it becomes their problem not yours...but expect that this may become a problem with ewhere you decide to market yourself..
I don't have a problem with Peter's basic premise, protect your turf and your business. However, I wonder if his pro OG opinion is related to the two retailers running for SAF board of directors" Scott Kremp and Maris Angolia.
lori042499
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BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
No comment on the article... it does not deserve my time.
And apparently SAF has finally chosen a side.
And apparently SAF has finally chosen a side.
As I said on my Facebook Page... The Truth of the matter is:
When a ORDER GATHERER Snags an order...and passes it on to a Local Independent Florist via a wire service... EVERYONE Loses! That behavior is NO different than Deceptive Listings! It's Criminal!
It's veiled in Nice-ness, Rah Rah, Go Team Nonsense... The Wire Services crossed the line years ago... and the PEOPLE... (The Local Independent Florist ) have the POWER to Stop it!
Would WE; as an INDUSTRY... Dare to PICK a DATE, and Commit as LOCAL INDEPENDENT Florists to NOT FILL WIRE SERVICE (and ORDER GATHERED) Orders... FOR ONE DAY... the Folks on Facebook want to do it SOON... but it has more TEETH on Thanksgiving, Christmas, V-day or Mos-day!
IF The WS can't get the order filled... they have to inform the customer... and that helps spread the WORD of How Necessary The LOCAL FLORIST is in this Equation!
Does anyone remember the Movie "THE NETWORK"... I think there comes a time when Together We Finally Stand up and say... "WE'RE MAD as HELL and we're not gonna take it Anymore!"
A comment on Facebook said... it would be like herding Cats... I don't think so... The One Thing You can Never DENY is that Local Independent Florists... are PASSIONATE, CREATIVE, HARD WORKING and DESERVING of MUCH BETTER! We Work LONG Hours to complete a task... Like Valentine's Day or Mother's Day... Why would this be any different?!
Look at my Facebook page... and see the Comments made by REAL FLORISTS... that chose to take a stand and take control of their Flower Businesses! Their Reports of Success are REAL... and they are Surviving and Making Money... Without Wire Services!
It's Happening... and I'm PROUD to be here to see it!!!
When a ORDER GATHERER Snags an order...and passes it on to a Local Independent Florist via a wire service... EVERYONE Loses! That behavior is NO different than Deceptive Listings! It's Criminal!
It's veiled in Nice-ness, Rah Rah, Go Team Nonsense... The Wire Services crossed the line years ago... and the PEOPLE... (The Local Independent Florist ) have the POWER to Stop it!
Would WE; as an INDUSTRY... Dare to PICK a DATE, and Commit as LOCAL INDEPENDENT Florists to NOT FILL WIRE SERVICE (and ORDER GATHERED) Orders... FOR ONE DAY... the Folks on Facebook want to do it SOON... but it has more TEETH on Thanksgiving, Christmas, V-day or Mos-day!
IF The WS can't get the order filled... they have to inform the customer... and that helps spread the WORD of How Necessary The LOCAL FLORIST is in this Equation!
Does anyone remember the Movie "THE NETWORK"... I think there comes a time when Together We Finally Stand up and say... "WE'RE MAD as HELL and we're not gonna take it Anymore!"
A comment on Facebook said... it would be like herding Cats... I don't think so... The One Thing You can Never DENY is that Local Independent Florists... are PASSIONATE, CREATIVE, HARD WORKING and DESERVING of MUCH BETTER! We Work LONG Hours to complete a task... Like Valentine's Day or Mother's Day... Why would this be any different?!
Look at my Facebook page... and see the Comments made by REAL FLORISTS... that chose to take a stand and take control of their Flower Businesses! Their Reports of Success are REAL... and they are Surviving and Making Money... Without Wire Services!
It's Happening... and I'm PROUD to be here to see it!!!
I read it again to see if I was misunderstanding something but I'm still coming up with the same thing. I will say that the writing is very vague so I see where it could be open to several interpretations.
He clearly states that "Every florist needs to become an order gatherer" without ever re-defining "order gatherer". When I think of the term "order gatherer" I think of someone who takes orders and does all they can to gather as many orders as possible--whether or not they will be the one filling them.
If this is not what he meant, then I don't know why he didn't just say that we need to make our websites more search engine optimized so people will choose our sites over the OG's site rather than going into how we need to be like the OG's.
He says we should take away the negative connotations associated with the word so we can become one. It's all really vague to me.
He even says that while they fight deceptive advertising such as misleading people to think you are a local florist when you are not, but that this is different than "seeking out sales online beyond your location". Maybe he means that you should seek to gather more orders that you intend to fill (as you are saying), but he could also mean that you should gather more orders from anywhere that you intend to wire out to other florists (like the OG's do).
There is nothing in the article to make me believe that he is against order gathering. But maybe I'm still reading it wrong. I don't know.
I'm all for extending our reach and getting orders from other places for delivery in our town. 50% of my customers live out of town and find us on the internet and call us directly so obviously I have no problem with this practice. But that is different than the typical order gatherer.
And regarding this part:
"Also do your math 20% plus a service charge and rebate is much more profitable than an incoming order neting 1-3% if you are lucky"
I've done the math and neither one is in the best interest of my customers so I don't do incoming or outgoing.
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
I don't think it has to be a holiday to make a big point. Using a holiday, most florists would not take the chance... but using a date like 10/10 or 11/11 would give us a number to build the argument around.
J, you better be careful friend, they'll label you a floral radical as they have me, but it's all good. I think the very thing they may be concerned with, is for an industry heavy weight like yourself to step up and put their good name onto it. They know, you can command attention from a wide variety of florists...
This move has merit, but you all knew I'd say that... it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
BTW, I'm still in the floral witness protection program J, I can arrange protection..... for a price
Be blessed~!
I dare every day since I am not with a wire service anymore. We don't need them to get orders filled and it's time for good florists everywhere to join the non-member club!
Eric S
Demoted Webmaster
Just confirms - We don't need SAF anything.
This is a very good article - tells us where SAF stands with the OG and WS.
This is one association that has outlived it's usefulness, or maybe I should say lost sight of it's purpose.
This is a very good article - tells us where SAF stands with the OG and WS.
This is one association that has outlived it's usefulness, or maybe I should say lost sight of it's purpose.
Whether or not you agree with the premise of the article, don't let that keep you from drawing out the bits of truth. If you really want to impact the .com non-florist order gatherers, we need all florists to have effective, competitive, and personalized web sites that are optimized for search and for conversion.
I strongly feel that we'll never kill the dragon by attacking the tail - that is, disruptions of fulfilment can easily be overcome. We need to go after the top of the food chain, the supply of orders. An OG with a lot of orders will find ways to get them filled. An OG with no orders doesn't care how many filler fools are waiting to be bottle-fed.
Stifling the flow of orders to big OGs is that it doesn't have to be a 100% reduction. For large operations even 10-20% drop can be catastrophic.
A side benefit of a disruption in order volume will be the changes required to the shops that depend on incoming orders.
I strongly feel that we'll never kill the dragon by attacking the tail - that is, disruptions of fulfilment can easily be overcome. We need to go after the top of the food chain, the supply of orders. An OG with a lot of orders will find ways to get them filled. An OG with no orders doesn't care how many filler fools are waiting to be bottle-fed.
Stifling the flow of orders to big OGs is that it doesn't have to be a 100% reduction. For large operations even 10-20% drop can be catastrophic.
A side benefit of a disruption in order volume will be the changes required to the shops that depend on incoming orders.
BTW - Did anyone else notice that the link for SAF's "SEO Advice" doesn't work? Actually, it leads to a duplicate version of their home page (SEO fail), which also doesn't resolve canonically (www vs non-www - another SEO fail).
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
LOL... They must have FTD doing their SEO....
And what Ryan said is true too... a 10-20% slam against fulfillment will get attention. Part of this as I see it is a "shot across their bow" to let them know we're serious and that we're NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE~!
Well said Ryan !!!Whether or not you agree with the premise of the article, don't let that keep you from drawing out the bits of truth. If you really want to impact the .com non-florist order gatherers, we need all florists to have effective, competitive, and personalized web sites that are optimized for search and for conversion.
I strongly feel that we'll never kill the dragon by attacking the tail - that is, disruptions of fulfilment can easily be overcome. We need to go after the top of the food chain, the supply of orders. An OG with a lot of orders will find ways to get them filled. An OG with no orders doesn't care how many filler fools are waiting to be bottle-fed.
Stifling the flow of orders to big OGs is that it doesn't have to be a 100% reduction. For large operations even 10-20% drop can be catastrophic.
A side benefit of a disruption in order volume will be the changes required to the shops that depend on incoming orders.