SAF and their stand on Order Gathering

It seems the Pace Florist is on of many fake listings under the parent yourprofessionalflorist.com here is a link to their list of "professional Florists" http://www.yourprofessionalflorist.com/search_zip.php there are some real ones at the top of the list but as you go down they start to get less and less complete name address and phone info and by the end it is just pure fictional names and only lists a toll free number. most of the toll free numbers are used by several different names and in different states. thankfully for me they seem to be mainly doing their creative writing in the south. This company is so proud of their reputation that there is almost no info available on them. For the life of me I can not see why anyone would associate themselves with them.

Add them to the list of ethically challenged and stay away.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FANCIES
Thanks to Peter Moran for answering critics concerns about his comments in the August Floral Management article about thinking like an order gatherer in this months issue.

While I still vehemently disagree with SAF's stance, I respect Mr. Morans willingness to stand before the guns.

I do not see where exposing the deceptive practices of wire services and some florists like Wesley Berry, the Kremp clan and others would be considered restriction of trade. They DO advertise making it look like they are physically located in the thousands of cities they target, I still have a problem with that, and wish SAF did too. Some things never change.

Mark,

Can you post the article here? His response.... If you can start a new thread...
 
It was wonderful seeing everyone at SAF. Although I was only able to atend for a day, but we had members from Beneva Solutions showcasing our new item this holiday season. One thing I hear from most shops is they all are looking to get back the local customer. I really enjoy these conversations and felt I was able to help several shops and learned a few pointers along the way.
As far as order gatherings, get as many as you can. If you have an office that needs to send flowers, we should all be trying to get the entire list local or out of town. Why us or you the local florist, one point of contact. YOU insure and guarantee the results. I was just in Wilmington NC working with Dana at Julias and we had this dicussion. Consumers may feel it is better to do a random search when sending flowers but by local florists promoting that personal service and attention, the guarantee will make the difference. get the orders and keep building relationships. Here is our blog post from the SAF conference, it was really done well by SAF. Great job! http://benevasolutions.wordpress.com/
 
Consumers may feel it is better to do a random search when sending flowers but by local florists promoting that personal service and attention, the guarantee will make the difference.
I agree with the bold above, but in a different way. Local florists explaining the truth about the money flow in a wired order will generate more local loyalty, as well as insure the filling florist gets paid a fair price to do their job. Cuz in 2010, working for $0.68 on the dollar does not make any cents....
 
I agree with the bold above, but in a different way. Local florists explaining the truth about the money flow in a wired order will generate more local loyalty, as well as insure the filling florist gets paid a fair price to do their job. Cuz in 2010, working for $0.68 on the dollar does not make any cents....

and unfortunately, it takes way too many of those "cents" to make a dollar!
 
Thanks Doug....

Rob... you guys are not members?

We're not, mainly because there isn't a reason for us to join.

I believe that SAF should be taking a pro-active stance, not a re-active position.

SAF has made it perfectly clear that they believe they have no authority to attempt to intervene in the MESS that has erupted within the industry.

I'm not short of an opinion on this matter! Considering that SAF has sat back and watched their members drop like flies over recent years just blows my mind. The problem isn't that businesses simply stopped supporting SAF, it's they are no longer in business.

That's TROUBLING! SAF is the voice of our industry, members and non members. SAF has the power to LOBBY to bring about change in the very FEDERAL GUIDELINES they have taken a position to simply accept.

They choose NOT to offer solutions, they choose NOT to attempt to MEDIATE and they choose to host events for those that are more willing to pat each other on the back all at a time while those in attendance are watching their numbers dwindle.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking here, I'm suggesting if they expect to gain new revenue and attract new members, they need to map out a VISION for the future.

Sitting back and watching the cards fall where they will, is a YESTERDAY attitude. Things will NOT get better on their own.

Simply put consumers are being RIPPED OFF by middle companies built, designed and rewarded by deceiving people and diverting consumers dollars from products and services they THOUGHT they were ordering.

If SAF want's to sit back and say; their hands are tied, it's legal so it's ok, then SAF is NO PLACE for a company like Oberer's.

We operate with better ethics, Always have and we ALWAYS WILL.

I think it's a crime, not only what the rip off companies are doing (order gatherers) but it's a crime that SAF is sitting back and watching it happen.

But hey, it's legal - right?

I say DEAD WRONG!!!
 
Rob, It's great to see a large shop like yours so passionate about the OG problem in our industry. I like your web site and the out of town ordering section. How do you send your orders out of town? I'm assuming from your stance on SAF that you are not a wire service member either?
 
Rob, It's great to see a large shop like yours so passionate about the OG problem in our industry. I like your web site and the out of town ordering section. How do you send your orders out of town? I'm assuming from your stance on SAF that you are not a wire service member either?

Helen,

We are in FTD.

My opinion is complicated, and by no means a double standard and here's why;

There's no question that we need a wire service because we have SOME customers that still ask us to handle sending flowers for them out of our delivery area. There is absolutely no reason for us to be associated with more than ONE wire service company in order to provide them with that service.

At one time the wire services considered themselves a service provider to FLORISTS, in fact they required members to be ACTUAL FLOWER SHOPS, they inspected facilities and set minimum standards. They had rules and regulations that were strictly enforced. Those rules and operating procedures helped establish standards and more importantly guided members ETHICS.

Looking back those were the good old days, consumers trusted FLORISTS and our industry thrived because we all had confidence that our customers were being taken care of even when they could not see what they bought.

We recognize that times have advanced and technology now allows for people to easily find local florists in the cities they need to send flowers. So what has happened?

TRICKERY!

I believe that TRICKING consumers is wrong. The wire services have morphed into a PROTECTION SHELTER rewarding anyone, anywhere that can produce orders that FLORISTS once had.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not jealous! We encourage our customers to deal directly because we KNOW that we can not guarantee what may be delivered on the other end, because there are MINIMUM protections for the consumers. This is because our INDUSTRY ASSOCIATIONS have accepted to play by outdated standards and little ethics.

Contrary to other opinions I do NOT believe that we risk loosing our LOCAL customers to the big order gatherers once they get onto their email marketing list. Not at least when they are sending flowers into our local delivery area.

WHY?

Because no order gatherer gives the customer what we do as far as quality and value.

An order gatherer gives NOTHING, they deliver nothing and they offer NOTHING but a picture and a HOPE that something makes it to the other end.

Pretty sad state of affairs if you ask me!

SAF thinks this is OK? SAF thinks this is good for our industry? SAF thinks we should accept more of this, we should simply allow it to continue?

Anyone that went to the SAF meeting and says things were nicey nice needs their head examined! It's not a social outing, this is supposed to be an ACTION organization!

Oberer's realized a long time ago that we can't be everything to everyone. We needed to focus on what we could do best, and try to make it better. That's how we're able to EXPAND and that's why we keep growing CUSTOMERS.

My advice to anyone who may look at us and ask how do they do it, is simply stay focused on your local markets. Don't adopt the nationalized pricing structure, don't adapt to the nationwide selection guide and stay the heck out of the WORLDWIDE game.

People are being tricked into believing that order gatherers are actually local florists. People are being tricked into believing that the picture they click on is going to be delivered as seen. By looking at the numbers we see that nothing could be further from the truth and are LOOSING CONFIDENCE! All this while organizations like SAF are telling their members to play by any rules so long as they are LEGAL.

We don't see it that way, and maybe that's why we are growing and they are not.

If the wire services and SAF hope to be around for another 100 years, hopefully they will at some point realize that we need to bring OPERATING STANDARDS and ETHICS back into the mix.

Hopefully they will STOP rewarding companies designed to suck every single cent out of the system with ABSOLUTELY no reinvestment. Stop romancing the companies that are set up by design to deceive consumers on where they may be located and what they promise they can deliver when in fact they deliver NOTHING, they only TAKE.

Hopefully they will see the importance of brand protection, not only their organizational name, but more importantly the word FLORIST.

I believe that's our INDUSTRY BRAND.

As for us joining the ranks of SAF- We don't think we'd fit in all that well in the Royal Country Club steam room. Not because we don't enjoy some R and R. You see our finger tips are green, our finger nails have dirt from potting plants, wrapping packages and taking out the trash because we're working class florists, not the polished YES guys and Gals they are looking for.

When they decide to get back to work maybe we'll contribute the couple of thousand dollars a year for membership we'd have to pay. We believe in spending our money WISELY, sometimes we invest in those that can do better, but as of right now, our money is better with us than in the Country Club coffers of everything is "Nicey Nice".

It's not time to be saying "Hail to the Queen!"

It's time to be chanting ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
 
I believe that SAF should be taking a pro-active stance, not a re-active position.

SAF has made it perfectly clear that they believe they have no authority to attempt to intervene in the MESS that has erupted within the industry.

I'm not short of an opinion on this matter! Considering that SAF has sat back and watched their members drop like flies over recent years just blows my mind. The problem isn't that businesses simply stopped supporting SAF, it's they are no longer in business.

That's TROUBLING! SAF is the voice of our industry, members and non members. SAF has the power to LOBBY to bring about change in the very FEDERAL GUIDELINES they have taken a position to simply accept.

They choose NOT to offer solutions, they choose NOT to attempt to MEDIATE and they choose to host events for those that are more willing to pat each other on the back all at a time while those in attendance are watching their numbers dwindle.


Simply put consumers are being RIPPED OFF by middle companies built, designed and rewarded by deceiving people and diverting consumers dollars from products and services they THOUGHT they were ordering.

If SAF want's to sit back and say; their hands are tied, it's legal so it's ok, then SAF is NO PLACE for a company like Oberer's.

We operate with better ethics, Always have and we ALWAYS WILL.
I could have quoted your whole post... but I digress... and agree with all of it... SAF's membership will continue to decline to the point of non-essential over the next couple years, based on their inability to tackle major issues that are important to retail florists. Yes health care is important, but the Fed has screwed that up beyond hope, and SAF has little clout it seems.

For the record: I dropped my SAF membership yesterday when they called to switch me from FTD billing to direct. Main reason: Lack of balls to take on deception. (translates into, if we do not acknowledge it and fight it, it does not exist)
 
I Agree with everything you say , Rob, except that I wonder why you don't quit FTD also? I think they are far worse a culprit than SAF in enabling the OG's. I quit all wire services and have seen no negetive affects. I can still send directly for those customers who don't take my advice and call direct themselves. Possibly your volume is much too big to be able to spend the time on sending direct. Just wondering.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FANCIES
I Agree with everything you say , Rob, except that I wonder why you don't quit FTD also? I think they are far worse a culprit than SAF in enabling the OG's. I quit all wire services and have seen no negetive affects. I can still send directly for those customers who don't take my advice and call direct themselves. Possibly your volume is much too big to be able to spend the time on sending direct. Just wondering.

Helen,

Oberer's is a very big sender. At one point not too many years ago they were both TF Top 50 and FTD Top 100 on an annual basis. The labour required to manually transfer those orders is unimaginable.

Rob,

Any plans to switch your volume to MAS Direct instead of FTD? If so, how's that working out?
 
We're not, mainly because there isn't a reason for us to join.

I believe that SAF should be taking a pro-active stance, not a re-active position.

If SAF want's to sit back and say; their hands are tied, it's legal so it's ok, then SAF is NO PLACE for a company like Oberer's.

This is how I was feeling, but was a little to "shy" to say it. Someone needs to put theri big boy or big pants on and tackle the isssue at hand............Sitting in the middle of the fence will only give you crotch rot!
 
  • Like
Reactions: ROBSWF
When I quit the wire services it was because I was done playing by their rules so they could make money on my hard work. That is the simplest way I know to solve the problem. I now focus only on the things that will make me profitable and help me to remain in business. Even though we all love to bash the OG's and blame them for the industry problems, it doesn't mean we aren't taking positive steps, too. We can vent on FC , long for the good old days, AND deal with the new reality. Multi-tasking for fun and profit.So keep the thread alive, so after a long day of marketing my business, I can relax with some OG/WS bashing. Doesn't mean I'm not doing what it takes to run my business in the real world.

Hi Helen,

Like it or not but the OG/WS are going no where anytime soon, as long as the corner florist fills their orders at deflated prices, and there will be always be at least one florist who will attempt even the most challenging of orders.

Unfortunately the success of the WS/OG has much to do with the apathy of the corner florist and our seeming consuming desire for more and more orders without giving much thought about their profitability and worth. I have long since stopped trying to beat the system. You can't, it is what it is, but you can work the system to take all the advantages and much less of the disadvantages.

Firstly, any mom and pop florists doing maybe less than 10 orders a day on average throughout the year will need to realise that our future lies outside of the WS/OG and that building up a good reputation within your area is paramount.

Secondly, setting your own realistic retail prices means more than just guesswork. It still amazes me that when florists are challenged about wire in prices then invariably they have no clue other than to say that they are the "recommended" prices, set by you know who!!

I have consistently found that price points are not the issue that so many of us think they are. Selling flowers is far more about winning the confidence of the customer than ever it is about the price. You must have a realistic price strategy, sell well and give a superior product and customers will come back.

Our customers are getting more savvy by the day and many now recognise the order gatherer and want to deal direct with the florist. We have to personalise our web sites more to give them something to be attracted to, besides the price.

Our perception is often our reality - fill a cooler with $35 arrangements and thats what you will sell. Fill a cooler with $75 arrangements and that is also what you will sell.
The Florist Doctor
 
  • Like
Reactions: concord
I would love to here from others who have read the reply to last months article (about this thread)....................Am I alone or did I get re-assured..........................we're are alone in this fight
 
#1) On delivery we always leave info for our store, either a flier/booklet/dvd, etc. #2) One week after delivery ALL personel call one customer from week earlier and ask how service, quality, etc. was...............for feedback. On OG orders, we explain that the order came from an OG (define them) and then ask if we can market her/son/daughter/etc. We explain the cusotmer paid higher than they should have (we share that they paid $10 - $20 more if they ask). They are encouraged to buy local from us or a local florist in their area. Note: On florist to florist orders nothing is done. #3) We then place the information into our data base and begin marketing them while WE ARE still fresh in their minds. Usually on the followup call we get a lead (address or email). We get emails all the time with address and emials even 30 - 60 after the order. (They remember us asking). During Sept. we filled (30) OG orders and about (25) that we didn't. After calls we came away with 12 new account leads (2 or which have already ordered from us). Every order delivered has 2 maybe 3 sales leads on the ticket. If the del. address is a business then we have three................We waste no information. On rejected orders, we still add them into a file and market them. That file is titled "You lost that customer". After an OG screwups, it's real easy to get customers to switch and become (silent sales reps.) So I put the conversion rate (25%-40%) of my cost (each month) of the WS fees back into the marketing column (I know most don't agree with this). Try one day sending yourself flowers and see how fast you get re-marketed for another order. One dot.com starts 24 hours after the del. confirmation....................................................uhm. Chapter 5 of my next book is titled, "Just Ask". Gene Simmons from Kiss, one of the worlds greatest marketers told our group one day "we've lost the art of selling in this country" and his success is because he asks for sales. Some people don't like to ask, but if you've been invited into a customers home (through however means) then they trust you and want that personal relationship. OG and Dot.coms can't do what we can do.................they don't have a chance in the years to come..........................We quit advertising 5 years ago and concetrated on what was in front of us, then segmented it, applied or marketed to the area where it's needs to be.