anytimeflowers
Linda
This statement deserved to be repeated and highlighted.
SAF and their stand on Order Gathering
- Thread starter Kristine
- Start date
This statement deserved to be repeated and highlighted.
Sorry Linda, I respectfully disagree. A handfull of vocal florists on flowerchat doesn't constitute a ground-swell. In reality, there are still thousands of florists clammoring for every order they can get--and they will gladly take them from any OG that will send them.
I'm not saying it's a good thing, just reality.
It's not just Flowerchat florists that are fed up. I see that the over 400 florists I have as facebook friends are also sick of the WS/OG situation, as are all the florists I speak with on a regular basis. So maybe not quite a ground swell but we're getting there. The ONLY thing that is holding back any florist I know is their investment in a POS with the WS. And leadership ofcourse. I still think that the easiest solution is to quit sending through the WS. Customers don't care how we send their orders, as long as it gets done.
bootcampguy
Well-Known Member
Yes, there will always be people in line to accept an order from an ws or og. However, as I talk to State Associations, I here florist saying, "we want change"..........they finally can see that it's just not profitable for them. They tell me they want to join the "floral revolution" which is this, florist educating florists (not @@@@@ing). I get several emails a week wanting to know about bootcamps or talks..........................When 1-800 encounter problems in the 90's they began to open stores in the biggest markets and will continue to do same. They can't do it without us.......Florists do want change and it will come one store at a time. My personal opinion is that the "floral wholesalers" are in a worst spot than us and they need to "partner" with us. While in Orlando yesterday at my daughters rest. a box showed up from FTD.com (10 bunches of glads) and my daughter went wild wanting to know who bought those and why............The local wholesaler had been giving the best product and price for years, but some new little (admin. assit) didn't know and thought she would save the company a few bucks.........and clicked on that tab "buy now". So we need a partner in this fight...................(florist + wholesalers + vendors = more sales) for local florists..........The floral revolution has begun..............and before theirs a ground swell, there's has be a "swell".................
I don't doubt that there may be a need substantial change. However, I've heard this florist revolution thing for a long time here, but nothing ever happens. I understand it works for you so you can do your seminars and books and stuff, but realistically, this exact same rhetoric will be happening here five years down the line.
conchandler
Well-Known Member
Yes, that mailing put me on the fence, and the FM editorial put me over it. When and if real change comes, I'll think about renewing my SAF membership.
anytimeflowers
Linda
Ted, I sincerely hope you are wrong. The differences I see today that I did not see five years ago are these.
1. - There are far fewer florists in business than there were even two years ago, so there are far fewer to reach out to. That is sad.
2. - With the advent of social media, florists are connected in a lot more ways than they used to be, and are getting the message. They ARE getting the message. Many are still terrified of making a change that WILL make a difference in their sales volume, and they are carefully weighing their options to see if a major change will be beneficial to them. I very much doubt that their wire service POS systems will give them the hard facts that they seek, so they have their work cut out for them, but they ARE researching and weighing.
3. - We are seeing more and more articles in top industry publications about the problems associated with wire service order fulfillment. That is new, and really about time. The reason? Because major change IS coming, it's inevitable. The only difference is that we have a rare opportunity to help shape the change simply because of the outlets now available, and the recognition in major arenas that something is happening. Publications would quickly lose any credibility if they were to not report on what is going on.
One thing I'm quite sure of. This rhetoric will NOT be happening here five years down the line. The change will have come by then, it already is. Do you really think that the ogs, wire services, OR I for that matter, are going to sit around and watch our businesses fall down around our ears? Not likely, and I know I'm not the only one. The ones who are left are a different breed.
Mikey the Flower Guy
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You know Ted, you're a wise man, but,incorrectly "assume" that the "remaining" florists are just as susceptible to the wire crimes of the past....I see little changes, all the time, and just because a horse still runs like a horse, OUR horses are becoming pedigrees......
I don't disagree Mikey. I just see the changes happening very slowly over time. And frankly, I don't think anyone knows how it's going to happen. However, I'm pretty sure the revolution thing isn't going to happen. You just can't get enought florists to agree.
lori042499
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I must agree with Ted. The word revolution conjures up thoughts of a swift movement, an organized change...this will not be the case...We have had change to our industry the last 15 years at a swift rate, and just the last 3 years have florists in general responded, now with social media they are finding out faster, but definately not at revolution speed. Florists are moving at the same rate as their businesses grow, unfortunately this is not fast enough to lead a floral revolution.
bootcampguy
Well-Known Member
Me TOO!..........but here's my case for the revolution finally gaining some steam. #1) The baby boomers are slowly getting out of the flower business and our mentality of "I learned the hard way, so you should to" is leaving the market place. #2) The checkbook doesn't lie..........when you're not making money there's a reason (65% of florist are breaking even or loosing money), very few florist can pin it down, but they are now and by the groves. #3) Design has always been the showcase.......the world's best designers have nothing to do if the phone "don't ring", so florist are educating themselves on marketing (most important business platform) #4) State associations are now embracing (business) education for florist. What I sell and teach is not the "same garbage" that we've been reading for the last 20 years (re-gergitated material) by the same regirgited people............sorry. #5) I have three sponsros and one "major" on the fence that all know the "florists" are the only survivor this game (survivor petunia) and they want in, they will sponsor "programs" that are marekting/business/interent realted. #6) People like Ryan and other (internet and business POS platform people) are now showing a new side to the game (florists are listening and learning). #7) Only our industry can do what we do. Without us, every WS and OG are dead in the water. Boxed flowers are in "decline" and will continue to (drastically). Take 500 million is DS flwoers and then devide it amoung 12,000 florist or 8,000 (real florists) that is motivation. We are the "major players in the game". (we just don't fully understand it yet). #8) Florists are creative people and are tired of doing the WEB 590 - "Does my butt look big in this vase" bokay - they realize there's no pofit in it.......#9) When you hand a florist the "marketing model" for PF for example, and then show them where there's a "huge" whole and it can be flip it on them and you take all sales back like candy from a baby, even the 'spoons" jump on that #10) The buying public is not stupid and they will actually help us in this revolution. I've been trying to get press for 2 years (but the floral mainstream) won't print what we talk about on here, the reason is "don't bite the person who butters your bread" or if I walk out in waste deep water you will drown (nose in wrong place). So that's my case.........so I see the next 2 years going further than the last 10.............So if the public see a "ground swell" then they will jump in the raft with us and there will be a few who will ride out the "ss flower titanic" but less than 20%.
Yes, I do make a little money on books and tapes, but what florist learn is far more reaching than what i make...............
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
This talk about a ground swell is definitely premature, most florists don't care about a movement against OG's Or WS's. I can honestly say that I can not recall any florist ever turning down an order we sent to them based on anything other than the standard reasons for doing so (i.e out of product, swamped at holiday, etc). The average retail florist is focused (as they should be) on the day to day operation of their business and making it work, not on a grassroots movement against the wire services.
Our industry as a whole is suffering (IMHO) due to a number of factors far beyond our control and ones that have affected many retail sectors that have been traditionally made up mostly of small independent retail operations. The biggest factors are changes in technology, transportation, and the prevalence of credit cards. The good news is that like many other retail sectors there will always be room for the "mom & pop" florist, simply not in the numbers we have traditionally seen. The strong operators will survive, the weak will perish. This has always been the case in our industry, however in the past the bar that separated the weak operators from the strong was much lower, so more survived. With the changes that have occurred the bar has simply been raised by the consumer. It is not like the "good old days" when anyone could be a florist, to survive requires strong business practices, something unfortunately that is sorely lacking in this industry.
Sure the introduction of OG's and the changes in the WS's contribute to the problems, however they are not the root cause. The bottom line is that things have changed and there is no going back. So my advice (for what it is worth) is that those that can change will survive, those that dream about the old days or focus on the belief that by removing OG's or WS's life will be rosy again (no pun intended) will struggle or fail. In other word get with the times and focus on building your business under a new set of rules. Rules that we did not wish for or have a say in.
Our industry as a whole is suffering (IMHO) due to a number of factors far beyond our control and ones that have affected many retail sectors that have been traditionally made up mostly of small independent retail operations. The biggest factors are changes in technology, transportation, and the prevalence of credit cards. The good news is that like many other retail sectors there will always be room for the "mom & pop" florist, simply not in the numbers we have traditionally seen. The strong operators will survive, the weak will perish. This has always been the case in our industry, however in the past the bar that separated the weak operators from the strong was much lower, so more survived. With the changes that have occurred the bar has simply been raised by the consumer. It is not like the "good old days" when anyone could be a florist, to survive requires strong business practices, something unfortunately that is sorely lacking in this industry.
Sure the introduction of OG's and the changes in the WS's contribute to the problems, however they are not the root cause. The bottom line is that things have changed and there is no going back. So my advice (for what it is worth) is that those that can change will survive, those that dream about the old days or focus on the belief that by removing OG's or WS's life will be rosy again (no pun intended) will struggle or fail. In other word get with the times and focus on building your business under a new set of rules. Rules that we did not wish for or have a say in.
duanermb
New Member
Hear hear! Clap! Clap! Clap!
Added: I still think we should tackle deceptive advertising and tax laws that put the pricing advantage on non B&M shops.
anytimeflowers
Linda
Sheesh,
I used groundswell as an interchangable term. I honestly was not trying to attach drama to it. Perhaps a better definition would be a "leavening of the depression". As in a low point that has begun filling in.
How's that?
I have spoken to many florists who are not active in this community who are of the same mind, for the most part.
Doug, I don't know what name your send-outs come in as. If florists are not refusing your orders outright, then you probably have quality orders. Not just in pricing, but in pertinent and relevant delivery information. I was rejecting Bloomstoady before I ever discovered this forum, I wasn't talked into it, I figured out all by myself that I didn't want to fill for them. There are plenty of others who do the same.
This is why I think it's so important to do what we are doing now. It isn't as if everybody on fc agrees 100%, all of the time. lol
We can get a rough percentage of opinion out of it though, that can be transferred onto the larger scale of all florists. We seem to already be at a stage of refining points, and reaching some consensus on some things.
Keeping this thread alive, and especially remembering that it originated from the SAF article by Peter about ordergathering will help the refining. I think that we will come to understand how and what the changes are going to be if we keep the conversation flowing.
I used groundswell as an interchangable term. I honestly was not trying to attach drama to it. Perhaps a better definition would be a "leavening of the depression". As in a low point that has begun filling in.
How's that?
I have spoken to many florists who are not active in this community who are of the same mind, for the most part.
Doug, I don't know what name your send-outs come in as. If florists are not refusing your orders outright, then you probably have quality orders. Not just in pricing, but in pertinent and relevant delivery information. I was rejecting Bloomstoady before I ever discovered this forum, I wasn't talked into it, I figured out all by myself that I didn't want to fill for them. There are plenty of others who do the same.
This is why I think it's so important to do what we are doing now. It isn't as if everybody on fc agrees 100%, all of the time. lol
We can get a rough percentage of opinion out of it though, that can be transferred onto the larger scale of all florists. We seem to already be at a stage of refining points, and reaching some consensus on some things.
Keeping this thread alive, and especially remembering that it originated from the SAF article by Peter about ordergathering will help the refining. I think that we will come to understand how and what the changes are going to be if we keep the conversation flowing.
bootcampguy
Well-Known Member
It sounds like we're all saying the same thing, but Doug your words we're better. The old days are gone and for good reason, the new days are here for better reasons. I agree with the first part of the qoute above but not the second part. Customer buying trends are usually "taught" in all industries, but they did not raise the bar, the bar was put in their lap with a "new method of purchase and delivery". Florists are focusing on their business and that's why there's so much "discussions" about what is effecting it. You're right the WS and OG will never go away, they are a part of the "new floral world". But I stand by my post that the florist "don't realize the power they have or can show and we can have a say" if we choose...................
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
I guess my feeling on this is and always has been that in general on this board there tends to be far too much emphasis on how the woes of this industry are solely the resposibility of the OG's and WS's. Again, this is not to say that either party is guilt free.
However the "birth" of the OG's could only take place due to fundamental changes in a much bigger picture. the first change occurred when long distance prices dropped allowing toll free numbers to become a practical business tool, this was followed by the internet (as they say the rest is history. As for the wire services, I still recall when AFS introduced the rebate to the florist, this resulted in florists everywhere jumping ship from other wire services. This in turn forced services such as Teleflora and FTD to introduce their own rebates (FTD was in fact to my knowledge the last hold out) and with time created a bidding war. During this time the florist had few complaints other than "Why isn't your rebate as high as the other guy". Unfortunately these rebates combined with the changes in technology and laid the groundwork for the growth in numbers of virtual order gathers.
So we all need to sit back and realize that the playing field of today is something that we all had a part in creating.
As far my comment of the customer raising the bar I stick with it. The reality is the customer has been introduced to a better way to buy and likes it. They will not turn back.
It amazes me that the WS and other services like SAF to the industry are so stupid about their business.
I've always heard it is better to keep your mouth shut, and be thought a fool than to speak and let people know you are a fool.
During the past couple months these so-called gurus of the industry have certainly let us know where they stand.
Everytime a posting is made, everytime the information is promoted and communicated the more educated the floral industry is becoming.
Each time another florist drops off the WS and quits accepting OG orders the status quo is changing.
Big things can start with small beginnings... if the small beginings have merit.
I've always heard it is better to keep your mouth shut, and be thought a fool than to speak and let people know you are a fool.
During the past couple months these so-called gurus of the industry have certainly let us know where they stand.
Everytime a posting is made, everytime the information is promoted and communicated the more educated the floral industry is becoming.
Each time another florist drops off the WS and quits accepting OG orders the status quo is changing.
Big things can start with small beginnings... if the small beginings have merit.
IMO the wire services enabled the ogs. If they were not allowed to use wire services to fill their gathered orders they would not be competing against wire services and all florists now. If wire services did not allow (sending shops only) and kept their business shop to shop this would not have happened.
And the florists demanded the rebates that make OGs really profitable.
And florists demand the incoming volume so that wire services have to give rebates, pursue OGs and bribe them to come into the fold.
The original OGs were florists. Most of them still are.
We got greedy and dug our own whole. It's time we pulled ourselves out of it, instead of waiting for someone to pull us out, while sitting comfortably in our hole and complaining why about every option available to us isn't quite right.
I was hoping that this thread would go away but it hasn't.
It seems as though they are many members of this forum hear the words 'order gatherer' and immediately circle the wagons and are ready to burn the messenger at the stake for merely uttering those 'fightin' words'.
Settle down and re-read Peter's opinion piece. He's advocating a change in OUR thinking, OUR marketing. He's trying to prod us into thinking like an order gatherer to regain the market share we lost to them. He struck a chord, but sadly I know that many of you have entirely missed his point.
And as to the opinion of SAF by many of you - they are a association that represents ALL players in the game, not just the ones that you or I happen to like. Growers, Wholesalers, Retailers, WS and yes, those Internet Sales organizations (order gatherers).
I may not particularly like all the players, but it's up to you and I to either make it difficult for them to play or to force them out of the game entirely, not SAF.
Thank you Doug Munro for your insight. You've summed up what Peter was implying:
Doug
It seems as though they are many members of this forum hear the words 'order gatherer' and immediately circle the wagons and are ready to burn the messenger at the stake for merely uttering those 'fightin' words'.
Settle down and re-read Peter's opinion piece. He's advocating a change in OUR thinking, OUR marketing. He's trying to prod us into thinking like an order gatherer to regain the market share we lost to them. He struck a chord, but sadly I know that many of you have entirely missed his point.
And as to the opinion of SAF by many of you - they are a association that represents ALL players in the game, not just the ones that you or I happen to like. Growers, Wholesalers, Retailers, WS and yes, those Internet Sales organizations (order gatherers).
I may not particularly like all the players, but it's up to you and I to either make it difficult for them to play or to force them out of the game entirely, not SAF.
Thank you Doug Munro for your insight. You've summed up what Peter was implying:
Doug