Are experienced designers a dying breed? Cannot find help!
- Thread starter radarkusje
- Start date
Lots of interesting thoughts going here.
Speaking from the experience of an owner and an employee....I always tried to hire a designer that would bring in business as well as be able to do whatever task was asked. The number of years of experience are not so important, but, their ability, work ethics, and ability to bring in an retain new business is an important factor.
For instance, when I moved to Texas I was able to bring in hundreds and hundreds of new customers by my networking and other abilities.
Also, keep in mind that most employeers would love to be able to pay designers what they are worth, but, absolutely cannot afford to keep the doors open if they pay the higher salaries. Many times, the designer is taking home more pay than the owner who has invested their time and money in the business.
Speaking from the experience of an owner and an employee....I always tried to hire a designer that would bring in business as well as be able to do whatever task was asked. The number of years of experience are not so important, but, their ability, work ethics, and ability to bring in an retain new business is an important factor.
For instance, when I moved to Texas I was able to bring in hundreds and hundreds of new customers by my networking and other abilities.
Also, keep in mind that most employeers would love to be able to pay designers what they are worth, but, absolutely cannot afford to keep the doors open if they pay the higher salaries. Many times, the designer is taking home more pay than the owner who has invested their time and money in the business.
Knife's Wife
Well-Known Member
- Apr 16, 2005
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Why would I rather have 2-3 employees at 8-9 dollars an hours rather than just one Super Girl at $25.00 per hour?
1) I would not pay my designer $25.00 per hour to fill water tubes, process flowers, clean cooler, sweep, dust or write thank you notes or any number of other task that make a shop run. It would be smarter to pay a super designer for just 2 hours a day to come in and fill the work and go, and have a few other employees that can clean, ring sales , take orders over the phone, prep flowers, containers and send outgoing orders.
2) I would never in a million years put all my faith, hope, fate and business into the hands of one employee.
3) I'm screwed for the day if that one employee wakes up sick, with 2 or 3... well, it is amazing what employees will do when the @@@@ hits the fan.
4) One employee that does everything is much harder to replace when you have to or it becomes time to. Then 2-3 less skilled people who can do the jobs that they are capable of doing very well.
I am sure I could think of a few more reasons not to have a super designer, but it is getting late. Maybe someone else could add to this list.
1) I would not pay my designer $25.00 per hour to fill water tubes, process flowers, clean cooler, sweep, dust or write thank you notes or any number of other task that make a shop run. It would be smarter to pay a super designer for just 2 hours a day to come in and fill the work and go, and have a few other employees that can clean, ring sales , take orders over the phone, prep flowers, containers and send outgoing orders.
2) I would never in a million years put all my faith, hope, fate and business into the hands of one employee.
3) I'm screwed for the day if that one employee wakes up sick, with 2 or 3... well, it is amazing what employees will do when the @@@@ hits the fan.
4) One employee that does everything is much harder to replace when you have to or it becomes time to. Then 2-3 less skilled people who can do the jobs that they are capable of doing very well.
I am sure I could think of a few more reasons not to have a super designer, but it is getting late. Maybe someone else could add to this list.
OB1
Joanne Plummer AIFD,CAFA
Wow.
I've read through this thread so many times, and there are so many truths in here that it is virtually impossible for me to say that I totally agree with one, or with any other point of view. Each poster sees this issue through their own lens, and, from my point of view, each one has a valid observation.
I have learned a few things over the years that some may find useful. Or not.
The first one or two people I hired were the most difficult to find. In retrospect, I think that part of this was my fault. I was expecting that the person I chose would be able, and willing to work very hard to ensure that only the finest product went out my door.
Now I realize that finding someone who has the capability and the motivation to do so is one thing, but to have the knowledge and the education and the opportunity to to so, as well as the capability and motivation is somewhat unrealistic. Even if I were able and willing to pay 50$ an hour, finding that one person with all of those gifts was, and still is virtually impossible.
See, when I was young...(say 30-36 yrs old) and I was looking for that person, I just expected that he/she exsisted, and if that person lived, I would have paid anything to have them, because at that time I had no-one other than myself, so at that point it was not about the money, it was about survival.
But, I never did find that person. That's because, in my opinion, at that point in your career, you think that only person is yourself. And it doesn't matter how good the next one is, they are never as good as you because when you are young, and relatively new at this stuff, and you think, no you BELIEVE, that nobody will ever get it the way you do...so you're almost setting yourself up for failure, and no matter how great the first one is, they will probably not pass the test because you do not want them to be as good or better than you....
at least not right away.
So you settle for the next best thing...someone who is almost ok, someone who is pretty good, but the little nagging things drive you crazy. They aren't fast enough, they don't produce enough. They don't remember customers names. They aren't good at display, or set-up or what-ever. That is the beginning for settling for second best.
Some employers never get beyond that, for what ever reason, they feel more comfortable keeping people who are less able and less worthy than themselves. I'm not sure why...maybe they are just naturally massocists...I don't know.
In my case it took a few years before I was finally willing to admit that I needed to hire people who were better than me.
So I made a list of the things I was really great at, and a list of the things that I was not good at, and then I used that list to find my next empyloyee.
That truly marked the beginning of the success of Mill Street.
I was able to find someone who LOVED being with customers all the time, but was a crappy designer. Even when my patience would wear thin, she would be calm, and kind, and work a way to make a great sale.
Next was someone who became bored easily, but loved the challenge of keeping the shop displayed, and then going outside to maintain the flowerbeds, and then coming in to make certain that all the hard goods had been unpacked and that every penny was accounted for on the various invoices, and that every shelf was organized according to date recieved, and quantity left over. You could eat off the floor when she tidied up. But my God, you could never let her speak to a customer for fear of what she might say....
Soon came a full time book-keeper, who was a tyrant about COG and COL so I didn't have to stay late every day figuring out numbers... then a full time delivery person. Then, to make it easier on her, 2 part-time delivery people who split the hours the way they wanted, not the way I wanted....because in the end, it didn't really matter who worked when, as long as we had some one who could take care of the deliveries responisibly and efficiently....
So you see, in many ways, it was really the staff who showed me how to run a successfull shop.
OK, so I was the one who made the final decisions, but what I mean is, if we see who we have, and really evaluate the different gifts they bring to us, , and hire people instead of "positions" or "titles" then I think we are better positioned to be successfull.
I now find myself in a situation where the primary design team is running like mad to complete all the work that has been coming in lately. But just because we have more arrangements to deliver, does that automatically mean that we need another 20$ an hour designer? Maybe what we need is someone who is really good at customer sales .Or cleaning flowers. Or cleaning up at end of day.
All I know is that who ever that person turns out to be, they have to mesh well with the rest of the team, have a good work ethic, and like working in a small town which also services the elitists of the big city . After that, if I am good employer, I should be able to figure out what tasks they can fill in order to be part of a great team of workers, and if they are really as good as they think they are, they will see a raise soon enough.
I think one of the most improtant things I have learned is that no one is indispensible. NO-ONE, not even me.
And so, everyone really needs to able to do a number of jobs reasonably well.
Plus, no one gets a title. No "Designer" as opposed to a "Salesperson" as opposed to a a "Customer Service Rep".
We all design, (think European Hand-Tied Bouquets for walk in sales), serve customers, clean flowers, answer phones, and wash floors. We are all equals. Together we scrub toilets, shovel snow, weed gardens, and wrap parcels. Together, we will make this dream work or fail.
Now, of course I do departmental-ize tasks during busy times, and when things are slow, the hirer paid staffers are encouraged to go home early, take a few days off, or work in their their holidays, in order to lower COL... Together, we work out ways to keep the numbers friendly to continuing business.
Together, we decide who should be able to take a week off to be with family, or what-ever.
Twenty-five years ago, I never could have imagined that I would be able, or willing to operate a shop profitably, by encouraging staff to guide my decisions about hours, responisbilities and holidays. But with a very few exceptions, I have found that it works way better than the autocratic approach I used to employ.
Scince I have adopted this "we are all in this together frame of mind", thing have worked so much better.
I still have a couple of people whose primary function is design, and yes, they do make in the neighbourhood of 20-25 dollars an hour, as opposed to the primary sales staff who make more like 12-16$ per hour. Less that 12$ an hour are those people who are not likely to stick around long...processors, drivers, cleaners. But as each person shows more interest and ability, they get paid more. If they can bring me more customers, more orders, more work, they get paid more.
So, if the cut flower processing people suddenly start bringing in friends and family who want to order flowers, and they translate into actual customers...guess what, they get a raise.
I guess it's like profit sharing in a big corporation...bring in more business, get more money. Produce more..whether it be sales, arrangements, cut flower processing, or shop re-display, guess what.... more money.
It seems to work well for me, It is well recieved by staff, and it means that bit by bit, my responsibilities are reduced, so that I rarely work the 70 hour weeks that I used to.
Now, one caveat. I did give too much power to one staff person who ended up thinking that because she was really good at a few things, she became indispenible.
WRONG. No matter how hard, as soon as someone starts to think they are better than me, the owner , who has the last say where the money goes, then that person is out.
If they are that arrogant, then guess what...they are gone.
After all it is my shop, my investment, and like it or not, in the end, my decision.
JP
I've read through this thread so many times, and there are so many truths in here that it is virtually impossible for me to say that I totally agree with one, or with any other point of view. Each poster sees this issue through their own lens, and, from my point of view, each one has a valid observation.
I have learned a few things over the years that some may find useful. Or not.
The first one or two people I hired were the most difficult to find. In retrospect, I think that part of this was my fault. I was expecting that the person I chose would be able, and willing to work very hard to ensure that only the finest product went out my door.
Now I realize that finding someone who has the capability and the motivation to do so is one thing, but to have the knowledge and the education and the opportunity to to so, as well as the capability and motivation is somewhat unrealistic. Even if I were able and willing to pay 50$ an hour, finding that one person with all of those gifts was, and still is virtually impossible.
See, when I was young...(say 30-36 yrs old) and I was looking for that person, I just expected that he/she exsisted, and if that person lived, I would have paid anything to have them, because at that time I had no-one other than myself, so at that point it was not about the money, it was about survival.
But, I never did find that person. That's because, in my opinion, at that point in your career, you think that only person is yourself. And it doesn't matter how good the next one is, they are never as good as you because when you are young, and relatively new at this stuff, and you think, no you BELIEVE, that nobody will ever get it the way you do...so you're almost setting yourself up for failure, and no matter how great the first one is, they will probably not pass the test because you do not want them to be as good or better than you....
at least not right away.
So you settle for the next best thing...someone who is almost ok, someone who is pretty good, but the little nagging things drive you crazy. They aren't fast enough, they don't produce enough. They don't remember customers names. They aren't good at display, or set-up or what-ever. That is the beginning for settling for second best.
Some employers never get beyond that, for what ever reason, they feel more comfortable keeping people who are less able and less worthy than themselves. I'm not sure why...maybe they are just naturally massocists...I don't know.
In my case it took a few years before I was finally willing to admit that I needed to hire people who were better than me.
So I made a list of the things I was really great at, and a list of the things that I was not good at, and then I used that list to find my next empyloyee.
That truly marked the beginning of the success of Mill Street.
I was able to find someone who LOVED being with customers all the time, but was a crappy designer. Even when my patience would wear thin, she would be calm, and kind, and work a way to make a great sale.
Next was someone who became bored easily, but loved the challenge of keeping the shop displayed, and then going outside to maintain the flowerbeds, and then coming in to make certain that all the hard goods had been unpacked and that every penny was accounted for on the various invoices, and that every shelf was organized according to date recieved, and quantity left over. You could eat off the floor when she tidied up. But my God, you could never let her speak to a customer for fear of what she might say....
Soon came a full time book-keeper, who was a tyrant about COG and COL so I didn't have to stay late every day figuring out numbers... then a full time delivery person. Then, to make it easier on her, 2 part-time delivery people who split the hours the way they wanted, not the way I wanted....because in the end, it didn't really matter who worked when, as long as we had some one who could take care of the deliveries responisibly and efficiently....
So you see, in many ways, it was really the staff who showed me how to run a successfull shop.
OK, so I was the one who made the final decisions, but what I mean is, if we see who we have, and really evaluate the different gifts they bring to us, , and hire people instead of "positions" or "titles" then I think we are better positioned to be successfull.
I now find myself in a situation where the primary design team is running like mad to complete all the work that has been coming in lately. But just because we have more arrangements to deliver, does that automatically mean that we need another 20$ an hour designer? Maybe what we need is someone who is really good at customer sales .Or cleaning flowers. Or cleaning up at end of day.
All I know is that who ever that person turns out to be, they have to mesh well with the rest of the team, have a good work ethic, and like working in a small town which also services the elitists of the big city . After that, if I am good employer, I should be able to figure out what tasks they can fill in order to be part of a great team of workers, and if they are really as good as they think they are, they will see a raise soon enough.
I think one of the most improtant things I have learned is that no one is indispensible. NO-ONE, not even me.
And so, everyone really needs to able to do a number of jobs reasonably well.
Plus, no one gets a title. No "Designer" as opposed to a "Salesperson" as opposed to a a "Customer Service Rep".
We all design, (think European Hand-Tied Bouquets for walk in sales), serve customers, clean flowers, answer phones, and wash floors. We are all equals. Together we scrub toilets, shovel snow, weed gardens, and wrap parcels. Together, we will make this dream work or fail.
Now, of course I do departmental-ize tasks during busy times, and when things are slow, the hirer paid staffers are encouraged to go home early, take a few days off, or work in their their holidays, in order to lower COL... Together, we work out ways to keep the numbers friendly to continuing business.
Together, we decide who should be able to take a week off to be with family, or what-ever.
Twenty-five years ago, I never could have imagined that I would be able, or willing to operate a shop profitably, by encouraging staff to guide my decisions about hours, responisbilities and holidays. But with a very few exceptions, I have found that it works way better than the autocratic approach I used to employ.
Scince I have adopted this "we are all in this together frame of mind", thing have worked so much better.
I still have a couple of people whose primary function is design, and yes, they do make in the neighbourhood of 20-25 dollars an hour, as opposed to the primary sales staff who make more like 12-16$ per hour. Less that 12$ an hour are those people who are not likely to stick around long...processors, drivers, cleaners. But as each person shows more interest and ability, they get paid more. If they can bring me more customers, more orders, more work, they get paid more.
So, if the cut flower processing people suddenly start bringing in friends and family who want to order flowers, and they translate into actual customers...guess what, they get a raise.
I guess it's like profit sharing in a big corporation...bring in more business, get more money. Produce more..whether it be sales, arrangements, cut flower processing, or shop re-display, guess what.... more money.
It seems to work well for me, It is well recieved by staff, and it means that bit by bit, my responsibilities are reduced, so that I rarely work the 70 hour weeks that I used to.
Now, one caveat. I did give too much power to one staff person who ended up thinking that because she was really good at a few things, she became indispenible.
WRONG. No matter how hard, as soon as someone starts to think they are better than me, the owner , who has the last say where the money goes, then that person is out.
If they are that arrogant, then guess what...they are gone.
After all it is my shop, my investment, and like it or not, in the end, my decision.
JP
OB1-
The very very last statement is spot on as far as I can see. I think a lot of you would be amazed by how many shop owner do NOT think this way. Despite our disagreements, this is one place that we see eye to eye. I also agree no one is indispensable.
The very very last statement is spot on as far as I can see. I think a lot of you would be amazed by how many shop owner do NOT think this way. Despite our disagreements, this is one place that we see eye to eye. I also agree no one is indispensable.
Palms
Well-Known Member
JB, did you go into my mind in the night... lol
I was looking for someone with every skill imagineable and was willing to pay for it but did not find it. Now i work with strengths and weakness. And, I encourage the team to tell me what hours are good for them etc. They all know that they HAVE to do Saturdays for weddings but other times can be more flexible.
Great post yet again!! You are pulling them out of the bag lately, so glad you joined FC
I was looking for someone with every skill imagineable and was willing to pay for it but did not find it. Now i work with strengths and weakness. And, I encourage the team to tell me what hours are good for them etc. They all know that they HAVE to do Saturdays for weddings but other times can be more flexible.
Great post yet again!! You are pulling them out of the bag lately, so glad you joined FC
lori042499
Well-Known Member
- May 3, 2006
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Joanne, Yay for that post...
I think if more owners thought like this they would be more successful...Hire people for their strength and hire people to fill in for your weaknesses...excellent....I love it...and everybody better know what other things need to be done and everybody got to get it done, no matter what your job in the store..excellent way of doing things...I think that many of the shops that I really enjoyed working for employed this though to some extent, and I was happiest there..I think I really nee dto meet with you some day!!
I think if more owners thought like this they would be more successful...Hire people for their strength and hire people to fill in for your weaknesses...excellent....I love it...and everybody better know what other things need to be done and everybody got to get it done, no matter what your job in the store..excellent way of doing things...I think that many of the shops that I really enjoyed working for employed this though to some extent, and I was happiest there..I think I really nee dto meet with you some day!!
We go about it in a completely different way...
I hesitate to write this, since I know that a lot of florists are struggling, and not showing a profit. But this is for those who do...
We have a profit sharing plan. At the end of the year, the profit gets divided up between SEP IRA's, officer bonuses, employee bonuses, and retained earnings.
Our employees know that the harder and better they work, the bigger the bonus at the end of the fiscal year. We just got the figures back for our fiscal year ending June 30. Looks like employees will be getting, on average, bonuses of 20% of their pay.
Bottom line, we have folks working for us that are loyal, flexible with work hours, and (I think!) happy. We couldn't do it without them. When we considered donating to charity from the business, we decided that any profits belonged to our employees instead.
I hesitate to write this, since I know that a lot of florists are struggling, and not showing a profit. But this is for those who do...
We have a profit sharing plan. At the end of the year, the profit gets divided up between SEP IRA's, officer bonuses, employee bonuses, and retained earnings.
Our employees know that the harder and better they work, the bigger the bonus at the end of the fiscal year. We just got the figures back for our fiscal year ending June 30. Looks like employees will be getting, on average, bonuses of 20% of their pay.
Bottom line, we have folks working for us that are loyal, flexible with work hours, and (I think!) happy. We couldn't do it without them. When we considered donating to charity from the business, we decided that any profits belonged to our employees instead.
bootcampguy
Well-Known Member
Profit is not a 'dirty" word. You can make money at "any" level, only if you have profitable sales and employees that will stay within the guidelines of those sales. (That could be a thread in itself.........uhhhhh) We've used profit sharing (some), our biggest perk is time off. When certain numbers are "hit" we give ALL EMPLOYEES paid time off. Plus, it's not taxable.......................
OB1
Joanne Plummer AIFD,CAFA
Hey Blumen, I love the idea of profit sharing...I just could never get how to do it so that those who really deserved it got it, and those who were just along for the ride, didn't, or at least, got less. Maybe I don't understand it well enough. If you don't mind, I'd love to learn more?!?
And bootcampguy...love that idea, but I thought all paid time off was a taxable benefit under law. Or maybe that's just a Canadian thing...I'm not sure, but I love that approach too.
JP
And bootcampguy...love that idea, but I thought all paid time off was a taxable benefit under law. Or maybe that's just a Canadian thing...I'm not sure, but I love that approach too.
JP
OB1
Joanne Plummer AIFD,CAFA
Oh yeah, and Lori,
Our paths will cross...don't know when, but i can feel it.
But if I'm in my picking clothes that day, you'll just have to come along for the ride, and see some of my favorite secret picking places.
JP
Our paths will cross...don't know when, but i can feel it.
But if I'm in my picking clothes that day, you'll just have to come along for the ride, and see some of my favorite secret picking places.
JP
Guess this is as good a time as ever to join back in, since I just joined back up again. Missed this place, the focus, the true desire to promote the floral industry and the camaraderie or testiness, whichever is happening at the time, and of course many of the folks here.
I'm still an employee, don't seem to be going anywhere else any time soon, and don't think I want to. I really appreciate the input from owners that are considerate of their employees, especially the ones that are a team player and work hard. I have worked for many employers that bust your butt and no matter how loyal or hard working you are, would can your butt in half a second if it served their purpose.
The only way we come up with fresh designer blood in this area is if they have moved into town recently, people are finding out that in many cases playing with flowers doesn't pay enough, no matter how much they like it. We ended up training pretty much from the ground up. I think our biggest problem has been finding a designer willing to work flexible hours, especially Sundays. They REALLY want to work for our store, feather in the cap and all that, but don't ask them to work their share of Sundays, we all have to take turns. Guess they didn't want the job bad enough.
I'm very lucky to work for a manager that is flexible design wise, lets us try stuff, tries to work with days off and puts in a good word with the owner, not to mention, she is smart and has a great eye for what makes our store special. I'm very lucky to work where I am and work my butt off for her, still have to pinch myself once in awhile.
Just my two cents.
Trish
I'm still an employee, don't seem to be going anywhere else any time soon, and don't think I want to. I really appreciate the input from owners that are considerate of their employees, especially the ones that are a team player and work hard. I have worked for many employers that bust your butt and no matter how loyal or hard working you are, would can your butt in half a second if it served their purpose.
The only way we come up with fresh designer blood in this area is if they have moved into town recently, people are finding out that in many cases playing with flowers doesn't pay enough, no matter how much they like it. We ended up training pretty much from the ground up. I think our biggest problem has been finding a designer willing to work flexible hours, especially Sundays. They REALLY want to work for our store, feather in the cap and all that, but don't ask them to work their share of Sundays, we all have to take turns. Guess they didn't want the job bad enough.
I'm very lucky to work for a manager that is flexible design wise, lets us try stuff, tries to work with days off and puts in a good word with the owner, not to mention, she is smart and has a great eye for what makes our store special. I'm very lucky to work where I am and work my butt off for her, still have to pinch myself once in awhile.
Just my two cents.
Trish
Palms
Well-Known Member
I was an employee for many many years before i was an employer, therefore i always maintain that i treat my staff how i want to be treated !!! I have respect for their holiday/family time and am always flexible ! I cannot pay High wages (but pay a fair wage) but always treat them in Birthdays, bonus at peak times and Christmas prezzies and Nite out at xmas too.
I have been advertising for a Florist for a week now and had 2 applicants.....one is a contender...but the other one came in, told me she was qualified ...blah blah and then went on to tell me that was pregnant at the moment !!!!
Jeez...if i took her on, she would be entitled to paid holidays, maternity pay and i'd have to find cover for her !!
I have been advertising for a Florist for a week now and had 2 applicants.....one is a contender...but the other one came in, told me she was qualified ...blah blah and then went on to tell me that was pregnant at the moment !!!!
Jeez...if i took her on, she would be entitled to paid holidays, maternity pay and i'd have to find cover for her !!
You can call and speak with me or my husband, Jim, anytime.
The way we do it, in brief:
A small percentage comes off the top of the profit to keep in the business as retained earnings. (Which we pay taxes on.)
Then 20% of the rest goes to contributions to a SEP IRA for everyone who was on the payroll the ENTIRE year. (If we had just hired them, they get nothing.) We receive (including owners) the percentage that corresponds to the percentage of the total payroll that we received for the year. There's no adjusting there. It's not a large amount, but it's something.
Then the rest of the profit gets divided in half. Owners receive one half. The other half gets divided between the employees. Here is where we have discretion. A good employee can receive more, a poor employee receives less. We even give a bonus to those who worked during the year and contributed to profit, but who then left our employ. Here again, we use discretion. The two employees who left this year who were with us for years got a bonus. The person who worked for a month and stole from us got nothing.
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
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bootcampguy
Well-Known Member
Trish, I don't know you but peoples hearts usually comes through in their writtings. YOU are why people like me and others are successful..........You go the extra mile, your inventive and thoughtfull of the whole picture. You will move up one day if YOU choose and do very well. I plan on handing my store over to the employees one day..........................but I have no trish's here now..........I once did and I didn't pay as much attetion to "her" as I should have. Thank you for your post.