BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
That 30-40 minutes would generate $120.00 in labor...and if I can do it in 30, that's a 800% markup on the labor... seems good to me...
But maybe I'm confused
Are experienced designers a dying breed? Cannot find help!
- Thread starter radarkusje
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That 30-40 minutes would generate $120.00 in labor...and if I can do it in 30, that's a 800% markup on the labor... seems good to me...
But maybe I'm confused
That 30-40 minutes would generate $120.00 in labor...and if I can do it in 30, that's a 800% markup on the labor... seems good to me...
But maybe I'm confused
Cool- When do I start?
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
Sorry, only room for one of me in my store... and there are two when things are rock'n!
hehehehee!!
I don't imagine Michigan would be my cup of tea! I had to move away from Durango because of snow. I shutter to think of how much you guys get there. Snow is not for whimps. Call me whimpy all day long!
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
I never did my driveway up north once last winter
That means this year- You'll be covered in snow!
Eric S
Demoted Webmaster
You guys can spend all day looking at how much a designer can produce in 1 hour.
The truth of the matter is that you have to look at everything that goes into each order from start to finish.
Designing is just one piece of the puzzle.
The truth of the matter is that you have to look at everything that goes into each order from start to finish.
Designing is just one piece of the puzzle.
The point is, most small shops do not have enough business for a $15 an hour designer to produce what they may be capable of. Doesn't matter if you can make 10 arrangements in an hour if there's only 20 orders in a day, unless the designer is willing to work 2 hours a day.
OR is able to sell those arrangements at $80- $200 each. If a "good" or even "great" designer doesn't have good selling and customer service skills, they aren't worth $15/hr or more. Lots to be said for good flower shop employees. 20 arrangements at $25 is $500. 20 arrangements at $40 is $800. 20 at $85 is $1700. A good "seller/designer" is totally worth it.
Most every shop I've ever managed by the time I left the average sale was $75- $85. Generally when I got here the average was $25-$35. And I can't tell you how many times I've heard "We can't sell flowers like that" or "We can't sell flowers for that much."
Here's a story for you-
Yesterday a woman calls me from Texas. She wants to order that Teleflora gentle thoughts spray. On FBML website ours is priced at like $75. Other ABQ shops have the standard price, something like 60 bucks or whatever. So she asks me "I've been searching the web and I see other shops in ABQ who offer the same spray for $xx. Why is yours more expensive? And will you match their price."
Hummm.....What to do?
So I think really quickly. If she sees it cheaper WHY did she call me? So I decide to be totally honest. I tell her "well, that's a teleflora deisgn and you may see it cheaper, but we have figured our costs and that is the fair price we need to charge. We are a high end shop, in the nicest part of Albuquerque. We will do a great job, but I'm sorry I cannot price match."
She says with out skipping a beat "ok, can you have it delivered by tomorrow?"
I sure can... And I made the sale. I think it has a lot to do with not what I say but also with how I say it. With confidence and conviction. I personally don't think customers like "oh uh um,,,hummm, uh well, hold on, uh....." They want to talk to people who sound like they know what they are talking about and know what they are doing. And that's just in general, not pointing fingers at anyone.
So the bottom line is a good all around flower shop employee is what I feel is the most desired and well worth $15+ an hour, in more ways than one.
Knife's Wife
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Another thing to consider.... Even if you do have a designer that does nothing but design they will never keep up the pace of designing at the pace you claim to be able to do, on a daily basis day in, and day out.
Production of even the best and fastest designer slows down considerably when that is all they do. I know this from watching some of the best and speediest designers over many years of being in business. It is just not realistic to expect any one to produce at capacity 8 hours a day no matter what $ amount that you pay them.
What good is a designer that can produce $2000.00 in designs per hour if your days sales rarely exceed $2000.00 per day? The average designer produces about 1200.00 in designs a day. Add up the pay per hour plus all other pay attributed to payroll of them, workers comp, disability, medicare, payroll taxes etc. now how much do you think you can pay that employee and per hour and stay in business? (Don't forget to add in vacation, bonuses, discounts, cell phones and what ever other benefits you provide your employees)
Joan
Production of even the best and fastest designer slows down considerably when that is all they do. I know this from watching some of the best and speediest designers over many years of being in business. It is just not realistic to expect any one to produce at capacity 8 hours a day no matter what $ amount that you pay them.
What good is a designer that can produce $2000.00 in designs per hour if your days sales rarely exceed $2000.00 per day? The average designer produces about 1200.00 in designs a day. Add up the pay per hour plus all other pay attributed to payroll of them, workers comp, disability, medicare, payroll taxes etc. now how much do you think you can pay that employee and per hour and stay in business? (Don't forget to add in vacation, bonuses, discounts, cell phones and what ever other benefits you provide your employees)
Joan
Exactly Joan!
That's why it seems to me most designers who can produce like that seem to either quit the biz or open their own shops. Total catch-22. Sucks but that's how it is as far as I can tell.
And let's be honest. For me personally-I'm not at the design table for 8 hours. I'm all over the store, customer service, answering phones, ordering product, doing quickbooks, doing payroll, paying the bills, balancing the bank account, cleaning the cooler, putting up product, cleaning the shop, etc, etc....
I do the work of 4 $8/hr employees. So it goes back to what Lori said- Why do flower shops pay several mediocre employees $8 (or whatever it is) when they could get 1 or 2 very good employees and pay them $15+ an hour.
This is what I think the answers are.
#1- They can't find awesome employees like that.
#2- They want a larger employee pool, and are willing to deal with the mediocrity.
#3- They don't think they can afford a good employee
#4- They think employees of that calibur are "prima donnas"
But I'm not an owner, so what do I know. It's all these things that are puzzeling to me. If and when I am an owner it will be my bridge to cross.
I think the other thing to consider is that there can only be one Alpha male or Alpha female in a shop. Someone has to be the boss. I like to be in charge. All the shops I've managed have let me be just that. If there is more than one Alpha there will be problems. Even I can see that. I'm not so arrogant that I can't recognize that in myself and in others. And I think that's why people like me move around so much. Once the job (whatever the job is) is done and you are no longer needed it's time to go.
So I think I will be forced to have my own shop or forced quit the biz. It is a dilemma.
That's why it seems to me most designers who can produce like that seem to either quit the biz or open their own shops. Total catch-22. Sucks but that's how it is as far as I can tell.
And let's be honest. For me personally-I'm not at the design table for 8 hours. I'm all over the store, customer service, answering phones, ordering product, doing quickbooks, doing payroll, paying the bills, balancing the bank account, cleaning the cooler, putting up product, cleaning the shop, etc, etc....
I do the work of 4 $8/hr employees. So it goes back to what Lori said- Why do flower shops pay several mediocre employees $8 (or whatever it is) when they could get 1 or 2 very good employees and pay them $15+ an hour.
This is what I think the answers are.
#1- They can't find awesome employees like that.
#2- They want a larger employee pool, and are willing to deal with the mediocrity.
#3- They don't think they can afford a good employee
#4- They think employees of that calibur are "prima donnas"
But I'm not an owner, so what do I know. It's all these things that are puzzeling to me. If and when I am an owner it will be my bridge to cross.
I think the other thing to consider is that there can only be one Alpha male or Alpha female in a shop. Someone has to be the boss. I like to be in charge. All the shops I've managed have let me be just that. If there is more than one Alpha there will be problems. Even I can see that. I'm not so arrogant that I can't recognize that in myself and in others. And I think that's why people like me move around so much. Once the job (whatever the job is) is done and you are no longer needed it's time to go.
So I think I will be forced to have my own shop or forced quit the biz. It is a dilemma.
anytimeflowers
Linda
Nailed it.
Shannon, you answered Joan's question, about what good is an employee who can produce that fast. That's the good of it, the fast designer can get all of the day's design work done in a matter of hours, and the rest of that time can be spent doing the other things that need to be done. You named a lot of them.
The more efficient the designer, the less it's going to cost in labor. Either the designer will only work a few hours, or , will take on a lot of other tasks as well. I can't see where that would be in question.
Shannon, you answered Joan's question, about what good is an employee who can produce that fast. That's the good of it, the fast designer can get all of the day's design work done in a matter of hours, and the rest of that time can be spent doing the other things that need to be done. You named a lot of them.
The more efficient the designer, the less it's going to cost in labor. Either the designer will only work a few hours, or , will take on a lot of other tasks as well. I can't see where that would be in question.
lori042499
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Shannon, you are so right here..it is very hard being the employee you speak of and hear things like, but I only pay designers 12 dollars an hour I can't give you a raise because then I would have to give sally and jenny raises also...meanwhile, sally and jenny take 15 cig breaks, rarely every make more than 12 designs each all day, can't sell anything more than a daisy basket, suck with customers, and won't do anything but design, no cleaning toilets or sweeping floors for these two, they are designers...meanwhile, you are out there, marketing the shop at every chance, bringing in customers, working your tail off til its done, problem soling, etc etc..and who does the boss come to when they need someone to sell something...This is what was always my reason for leaving somewhere, I end up pulling more than my weight, but because the other slackers are doing just what it takes to get by, I lose on a raise because it isn't fair...Why is it that owners think this way?? I don't know because I haven't had an employee and just don't know what is involved in this decision, nor do I know what I would do if confronted with this suituation in real life?
anytimeflowers
Linda
You do what I did, when they say they are leaving if they don't get more money, you say bye-bye. I was/am much happier.
Caveat - I'm talking about the slacker, not the money-maker, don't get the two confused. If had ever had someone who was a powerhouse, I would have done my darndest to keep them.
Caveat - I'm talking about the slacker, not the money-maker, don't get the two confused. If had ever had someone who was a powerhouse, I would have done my darndest to keep them.
WOW what a thread! As a store owner I am learning alot, thanks to all of you! I think I am terribly over staffed at the moment compared to what all of you seem to be able to get done in a day. Makes me wonder how I happen to still be in business. One thing I have found out with designers is that they pace themselves according to how much work there is on the table for the day. If we are real busy they work faster, if we are slower they go slower. My designers make $12-$15 an hour & according to all of your figures & how much work they should be able to produce in an hour I am amazed I am still in business. Shannon do you want to come & work for me? I would love to have you! However it snows here & gets cold, but it is beautiful in the black hills of South Dakota!!! I defenitely have to rethink my store according to all of you. I think you are all whizzes
In a perfect world everyone would continue to get raises every year and make more and more money.
but the problem is that there is a ceiling of pay for the job you do.
We aren't doing brain surgery or a rocket scientist. Heck you don't need a college education to become a designer (not saying that education is NOT nesc here).
So, how do you figure what an employee designer should make? In this economy when so many other professions have seen wages shrink, (there are many college educated who have given wage concessions to keep their job, we call them quiet concessions here) Whats the ceiling? Perhaps this job is only worth $15/hour max.
random thoughts on a rainy Saturday, staying late and cranking out the funeral work when everyone else has the day off - ME? I'm the owner.
anytimeflowers
Linda
....And here I am.....newly moved to the Austin Texas area.........as the opportunities in Portland did not materialize as we thought they would........an AIFD member.....certified in North and South Carolina as a master designer, a 26 year veteran of the industry.....and have numerous awards and accolades to my credit and I am struggling to find employment.
lori042499
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I think for average designers that the cap for the job is 12-15 dollars an hour...Most designers do not have the will or drive to do anything more than the job to be done...Most designers that have only ever worked in small shops have no idea what they are really capable of doing and don't care to ever do any more than what they are doing...they are 12 dollar an hour people period...
The one in ten employee that has drive and motivation is the one that should be your manager, they are the one that should be paid well and given raises to and should be recognized as the one in ten that they are...no not every shop is doing well enough that they can make 20-30 dollars an hour, but throw out a bone every now and again whne they land a huge account or , clean out the back room and hold a sidewalk sale to get rid of crap, or even just clean out the cobwebs from the front window without being told...these employees are not a dime a dozen...if you have one on staff that is not yourself, feel priviledged and thank them today...they are worth every penny you are paying them....I have said it time and again that the vast majority of flower shops are overstaffed and I mean it, many shops taking in less than a 1000.00 a day have 2-3 employees, that is crazy...cut that back to yourself and the one most motivated driven person on your team and pay them well and your shop will be better for it...
The last shop I managed taking in almost 500,000 a year, had 5 employees 2 counter help, 1 designer, 1 owner and a driver..The designer sat and read books when her designing was done, the owner had a 3 hour lunch everyday, the slaes girls were stealing the place blind and the driver was among the missing most of the time...That all changed when I took over...I cut it back to myself, the owner, one sales clerk and a driver, we rocked, we rolled and we made money for the first time in 15 years....and the owner still took 2-3 hour lunch breaks if we didn't need him and started to take a paycheck for the first time ever...all because I worked for high volume shops and I knew what designers should produce in a day, and I didn't hold everyone up to my level of producton because most people just can't or won't work like an animal the way I will especially for less than 15.00 an hour, they just won't...
The best way to find out what you can tolerate and if your really love this business is to work for a high volume shop, if you can take it, you were meant to be a florist forever and ever...I had never seen so many people walk out of jobs than the 2 years I was at this job...just go to lunch and never come back, we used to take bets at how long new recruits would last, because you could just see that they just didn't have what it took and thet they weren't nearly ready for what they were in for, they thought they would be farting around with the 6 deliveries and then merchandising the shop, then sweeping the floor all latida like the other small shops they worked for...HA, funny on them when they realized they might not even have time to pee, every single day...I loved that kind of grind....I thrive on it...especially if that is all I have to do design, design, design...
The one in ten employee that has drive and motivation is the one that should be your manager, they are the one that should be paid well and given raises to and should be recognized as the one in ten that they are...no not every shop is doing well enough that they can make 20-30 dollars an hour, but throw out a bone every now and again whne they land a huge account or , clean out the back room and hold a sidewalk sale to get rid of crap, or even just clean out the cobwebs from the front window without being told...these employees are not a dime a dozen...if you have one on staff that is not yourself, feel priviledged and thank them today...they are worth every penny you are paying them....I have said it time and again that the vast majority of flower shops are overstaffed and I mean it, many shops taking in less than a 1000.00 a day have 2-3 employees, that is crazy...cut that back to yourself and the one most motivated driven person on your team and pay them well and your shop will be better for it...
The last shop I managed taking in almost 500,000 a year, had 5 employees 2 counter help, 1 designer, 1 owner and a driver..The designer sat and read books when her designing was done, the owner had a 3 hour lunch everyday, the slaes girls were stealing the place blind and the driver was among the missing most of the time...That all changed when I took over...I cut it back to myself, the owner, one sales clerk and a driver, we rocked, we rolled and we made money for the first time in 15 years....and the owner still took 2-3 hour lunch breaks if we didn't need him and started to take a paycheck for the first time ever...all because I worked for high volume shops and I knew what designers should produce in a day, and I didn't hold everyone up to my level of producton because most people just can't or won't work like an animal the way I will especially for less than 15.00 an hour, they just won't...
The best way to find out what you can tolerate and if your really love this business is to work for a high volume shop, if you can take it, you were meant to be a florist forever and ever...I had never seen so many people walk out of jobs than the 2 years I was at this job...just go to lunch and never come back, we used to take bets at how long new recruits would last, because you could just see that they just didn't have what it took and thet they weren't nearly ready for what they were in for, they thought they would be farting around with the 6 deliveries and then merchandising the shop, then sweeping the floor all latida like the other small shops they worked for...HA, funny on them when they realized they might not even have time to pee, every single day...I loved that kind of grind....I thrive on it...especially if that is all I have to do design, design, design...