Refusing works!!!

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Knife's Wife

Knife's Wife

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2005
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DeWitt, New York, United States
www.colemanflorist.com
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Refused an order yesterday from an OG, today received the order over Dove from TF headquaters, refused again, TF tried to call in to us 3 times, refused, refused refused. We get a call from a customer requesting the same item who proceeded to tell us how they would never use anyone but us, as they had first placed the order with a company that told them the address did not exhist and the phone number was wrong (lie), and that she replaced it with TF and they could not find a florist to fill it.

I checked the OG website, they sent it to us with no dilery included. They charged he customer $7.95
KW
 
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CHR said:
As local florists' numbers shrink, there will indeed be a power shift.
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How true...and eventually the "wires" will once again have to deal with those they ticked off in the past...

Perhaps we will get to the point someday when they pay us to accept their orders...kind of a reverse membership :)
 
BOSS said:
How true...and eventually the "wires" will once again have to deal with those they ticked off in the past...

Perhaps we will get to the point someday when they pay us to accept their orders...kind of a reverse membership :)
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I am with Mark on this one.. we need to change the tables.. I think there is definitely a place for wire services..but they should be paying us a fee to fill for them. I just don't understand why oh why anyone would pay to list 24 also served by towns.. used to cost $0. or less than $2. now it costs way too much. Why should I make it easy for an OG to find this info only to have them use me to make money while I lose money? I think it will come where the wire services or whoever comes after them pays a group of florists to list their delivery areas so OG's (yeah I think they will somehow stay in business) can find out where to send these orders they pay big bucks to get. Now if a wire service were to pay ME $4-500.oo a month to allow them to use my services - then filling orders for 80% would make sense again.
Wire service dues used to go for things like education, co-op national adverstising, handling of disputes between florists,.. now they are used to fund the rebate programs and provide return on investment for the stockholder (s).
 
carol said:
Now if a wire service were to pay ME $4-500.oo a month to allow them to use my services - then filling orders for 80% would make sense again.
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Sign this lady up... I think we just found another board member :)

Have a day!
 
Knife's Wife said:
Refused an order yesterday from an OG, today received the order over Dove from TF headquaters, refused again, TF tried to call in to us 3 times, refused, refused refused. We get a call from a customer requesting the same item who proceeded to tell us how they would never use anyone but us, as they had first placed the order with a company that told them the address did not exhist and the phone number was wrong (lie), and that she replaced it with TF and they could not find a florist to fill it.

I checked the OG website, they sent it to us with no dilery included. They charged he customer $7.95
KW
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I am confused, is the customer that called you, the same person who placed the order with the OG/TF?

If so, why did you refuse the order? Was the price insufficient, delivery out of your area, or product not available?

From your text it appears the only reason you originally cancelled the order was because it came from an OG.

However, you continued to cancel a order when TF sent it.

You accepted an order when a individual (non Wire service) called and placed the order.

Is this discrimination? Would you cancell the order based on the race of the customer?

Also, how much time was spent taking and cancelling these orders on the phone and/or cancelling these via Dove?

Provactively yours:
Joe
 
TF HQ has their own version of FTD's Domestic Retrans. If you're having problems getting orders out, send them there.


This came from another thread but with the monies we pay the WS's for the service we do not get from the WS's , maybe Mother Day would be a good time to utilize these services and let the WS's earn their money. Let them deal with the small towns that have one shop and no merc or dove and have one driver and 2500 mothers living in the town. Not being sarcastic but I think a table turn around on the WS's is about due. And I have heard all the arguements about hurting the consumer etc and as valid as they are, maybe a taste for the big boys is due.
I have a toothache so maybe I am just cranky but would this be reasonable to send thru the retrans of both of them...please can we do it for just one day and screw with their heads....come on, let me have some fun!
 
Knife's Wife said:
Refused an order yesterday from an OG, today received the order over Dove from TF headquaters, refused again, TF tried to call in to us 3 times, refused, refused refused. We get a call from a customer requesting the same item who proceeded to tell us how they would never use anyone but us, as they had first placed the order with a company that told them the address did not exhist and the phone number was wrong (lie), and that she replaced it with TF and they could not find a florist to fill it.
Click to expand...

The question here is: what would a frustrated Internet customer do, if s/he couldn't send flower gifts via Internet OG sites? If s/he then somehow finds a local florist and calls us direct, that's wonderful.

Another possibility, which may be more realistic, is that this person would simply give up the idea of sending flowers. And these "lost" customers may never come back to flowers... That's not so wonderful, isn't it?
 
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Joe Mioux said:
I am confused, is the customer that called you, the same person who placed the order with the OG/TF?

If so, why did you refuse the order? Was the price insufficient, delivery out of your area, or product not available?

From your text it appears the only reason you originally cancelled the order was because it came from an OG.

However, you continued to cancel a order when TF sent it.

You accepted an order when a individual (non Wire service) called and placed the order.

Is this discrimination? Would you cancell the order based on the race of the customer?

Also, how much time was spent taking and cancelling these orders on the phone and/or cancelling these via Dove?

Provactively yours:
Joe
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1. Yes
2. We don't fill for OGs
3. we refuse to fill HQ orders.
4. Absolutely
5. Yes and absolutely not.
6. enought to make it worth while/ less time than they spent trying to send it.

We refuse all OG, SFO and HQ orders. Were fussy who we work for.

The knife and the W. are very sharp.
 
goldfish said:
Another possibility, which may be more realistic, is that this person would simply give up the idea of sending flowers. And these "lost" customers may never come back to flowers...
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No denying that it's a possibility.

Ultimately its up to us to protect the reputations and profits of our own businesses. We can't seem to stop OGs from using misleading (and sometimes fraudulent) advertising but we can refuse to be a part of it.

The worst dOG's (deceptive OG's) use bait and switch tactics, misrepresent what consumers are purchasing, skim, and/or lie about their locations. Before we even knew what order gathering meant, we spotted a pattern of complaints and problems generated by these types of companies.

We found that the amount of time wasted on sending price change requests, no-sub clarifications and second choice requests eroded the already razor thin margins. Even when all the bases were covered, complaints were still generated because the OGs would often authorize substitutions without consulting the buyers or tell us to 'just make the arrangement smaller' to offset the delivery charge they pocketed.

We'd do everything by the book and still be facing irritated consumers. So to answer your question, even if everything were handled correctly on our end, the buyer may not choose flowers again anyway. They've lost confidence in the reliability of flower gifting.

Of course it's an opportunity to educate - after the fact - but at what price?

We cannot become hostages to companies that sell by-any-means-necessary and with little or no regard for the future of our businesses or our industry. We cannot save the part of the WS system that's irreparably damaged by perpetuating it through fulfillment.
 
I am with you on this one!

CHR said:
No denying that it's a possibility.

Ultimately its up to us to protect the reputations and profits of our own businesses. We can't seem to stop OGs from using misleading (and sometimes fraudulent) advertising but we can refuse to be a part of it.

The worst dOG's (deceptive OG's) use bait and switch tactics, misrepresent what consumers are purchasing, skim, and/or lie about their locations. Before we even knew what order gathering meant, we spotted a pattern of complaints and problems generated by these types of companies.

We found that the amount of time wasted on sending price change requests, no-sub clarifications and second choice requests eroded the already razor thin margins. Even when all the bases were covered, complaints were still generated because the OGs would often authorize substitutions without consulting the buyers or tell us to 'just make the arrangement smaller' to offset the delivery charge they pocketed.

We'd do everything by the book and still be facing irritated consumers. So to answer your question, even if everything were handled correctly on our end, the buyer may not choose flowers again anyway. They've lost confidence in the reliability of flower gifting.

Of course it's an opportunity to educate - after the fact - but at what price?

We cannot become hostages to companies that sell by-any-means-necessary and with little or no regard for the future of our businesses or our industry. We cannot save the part of the WS system that's irreparably damaged by perpetuating it through fulfillment.
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I am the same way. WHy take the chance on filling for someone you don't want to fill or a lower SRP order.
TO eliminates any problems I fill for only Real customers that deals with real florists and real florists and 100% in town customers.
In my town it works like a charm. THe only other florist is busy filling those low orders and I get those customer she can't serve at 100%.
It happened like 6 times this week alone where I got customer coming in because she did not have product or time to get their order done for funeral. and that is from the customers mouth. THis system works better in small town than big one that the sending shop/tf would go to the next one on their list. And I will say it eliminates many complaints on what the customer is suppose to receive versus the value or the order given.
Luc
 
Refusing works?

As a relatively new florist, I don't agree with the concept of refusing orders from OGs and W/S just for principle. It's getting to the point where "wire service free" is some sort of badge of honor.
Don't get me wrong. I think that the things happening at FTD will cause permanent damage to our industry, and that skimming by OGs has the same potential. But, let's get real. Without wire services, this industry model doesn't work. And, since the internet is such a cheap, global advertising device, someone is going to take advantage of it.
For me, the business model says don't take orders that cause me to lose money, and don't take orders from places that I believe are skimming or scamming the customer. This model works pretty well for us. I'm really surprised that more florists don't follow a model like that, because the wire services and the OGs aren't going away, and I seriously doubt if they are going to wake up tomorrow and "see the error of their ways"
 
Bigted said:
As a relatively new florist, I don't agree with the concept of refusing orders from OGs and W/S just for principle. It's getting to the point where "wire service free" is some sort of badge of honor.
Don't get me wrong. I think that the things happening at FTD will cause permanent damage to our industry, and that skimming by OGs has the same potential. But, let's get real. Without wire services, this industry model doesn't work. And, since the internet is such a cheap, global advertising device, someone is going to take advantage of it.
For me, the business model says don't take orders that cause me to lose money, and don't take orders from places that I believe are skimming or scamming the customer. This model works pretty well for us. I'm really surprised that more florists don't follow a model like that, because the wire services and the OGs aren't going away, and I seriously doubt if they are going to wake up tomorrow and "see the error of their ways"
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While I see your logic in the concept you have, I think you need to realize that many shops have been burned SOOO badly by OG's that they choose to just refuse any and all orders from OG's. And for example, with FTD, you can choose not to receive any .COM orders. It's not about being "wire service free", it's more like being 'OG-Skimmer' free!

We have a sim. model as you: accept the order as long as we don't lose money - which is a hard thing to do. Some OG's are so smug about their orders, they CLEARLY send the order through under valued or with no delivery charge what so ever, and KNOW that there is some sucker-florist who will fill it. If refused, they'll just keep forwarding it on till someone takes the bait. If you do what Knife & W. do, then you eliminate the need for even evaluating that order. However, we are in a major-market, with lots of inbound traffic. Especially during the major holidays, we move a TON of codified product (but, NOT as much in years past...another topic for another thread...). We choose to fill orders as long as they meet OUR min. order dollar, and include a DEFINABLE delivery charge. During those busy holidays, the orders are rejected/refused upon arrival if not enough $ is given. With our system, it takes just seconds to do so.

One thing I destest is an order from ANYONE (florist, OG, etc.) that sends us an order for a "nice vase arr." for $35 total and says the delivery is included. WELL...question for you: how much did the SENDER expect to send with regards to the flowers? How much did you allocate for delivery? HMMMM??? (and NO, you can't ASSUME the delivery is $5.00 - remember, when you ASSUME, you make an ARSE out of U and ME...) If you send me a $35 order for a vase arr, after delivery, you are going to get a vase for 26 bucks. Is THAT what your customer ordered? If so, fine. A Dynasty bouquet vase is on the way. Plants - another subject, because in GENERAL, you have more room to move on a generic "Green Plant" order. Fruit and Gourmets - same, BUT, you need to pay attention to the florists minimums. If you don't list one, then you SHOULD be able to fill it for whatever is given to you, yes? (ohhh...did I just open a can of worms there - codified minimums??? Opps....)

Sorry for the ramble... [stepping off my soapbox now...]
I have a sinus headache, so sharing the pain with SHER today... (sorry about the tooth, Sherry-Berry...I have some string if you have a door-knob!)

- H
 
CHR said:
Ultimately its up to us to protect the reputations and profits of our own businesses. We can't seem to stop OGs from using misleading (and sometimes fraudulent) advertising but we can refuse to be a part of it.
Click to expand...

Fillig orders from OGs does not mean that the filling florists are "part of" the despicable business practice of OGs. It simply means that these florists, our store included, are not participating in the boycott of these OGs. There is a difference between not participating in a boycott and supporting the practice of that company, a difference that some purists might fail to recognize.

It is also important to point out that there are two groups of florists who are not participating in the boycott. One group is those who simply want as many incoming orders as possible. I don't understand why, but there are many florists like that.

We are not trying to get as many wire-ins as possible. Rather, as a new florist, we want as many opportunities as possible to access to the local consumers. Filling for OGs provides this advertisement opportunity, with its cost mostly covered by the person who ordered the flower. It happened many times that we delivered one of those FTD.com orders (from which we make no money), but the recipient liked it and then started ordering from us.

I also understand that, for established florists, the situation is quite different, because they already have loyal client bases. Filling for OGs erodes these clinet bases, as oppoed to opening them up for new florists.

If we local florists want to kill dOGs (deceptive OGs), the most promising approach, paradoxically, is for us to become better OGs than they are. That will sure wipe out the current dOGs.

Many of us who are members of FC already have their own decent-looking e-commerce sites that could gather orders. What we don't have, collectively, is a powerhouse directory or portal to list our sites.
 
Joe Mioux said:
I am confused, is the customer that called you, the same person who placed the order with the OG/TF?

If so, why did you refuse the order? Was the price insufficient, delivery out of your area, or product not available?

From your text it appears the only reason you originally cancelled the order was because it came from an OG.

However, you continued to cancel a order when TF sent it.

You accepted an order when a individual (non Wire service) called and placed the order.

Is this discrimination? Would you cancell the order based on the race of the customer?

Also, how much time was spent taking and cancelling these orders on the phone and/or cancelling these via Dove?

Provactively yours:
Joe
Click to expand...

The original order was sent to us from: From you flowers, a TF send only shop, who on top of it kept the $7.95 deliver fee they collected.

When TF Headquarters tries to give us an order we always ask what shop it is from and a phone # for that shop. If they won't provide it, in this case they did and we knew it wasn't from a real florist, we refuse it.

Hope that explains it!

P.S. I take great offense to the racial question, it does not deserve a reply.

I would have lost far more money filling that order than the 3 minutes it took me to send them a message telling them that I would not fill and the confirmation of their cancel. (I will not pay the money to refuse an order unless your a real florist, in that case I forward for you if I can )

Knife's Wife
 
From You Flowers is the ProFlowers portal to the TF network.

Ryan
 
flowerknife+us said:
Hope that explains it!

P.S. I take great offense to the racial question, it does not deserve a reply.

order unless your a real florist, in that case I forward for you if I can )

Knife's Wife
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Yes, it does deserve a reply. It was a Rhetorical Question.

I thought my salutation, "Provacatively Yours", would have clarified that I meant nothing personal.

Obviously, it didn't.

Simply put ....... You misunderstood my comment and question...

From reading your posts as well as your husband's, I know you wouldn't discriminate based on race.

I could have used another analogy such as ... political affiliation or something less sensitive than race, but I was making a point ... a comparison...

You don't discriminate on race but you do on certain wire orders.... I was eliciting a response. I wanted to hear why one form of discrimination was acceptable while another was not.

Unfortunately, I failed in conveying that message to you.

The end result of your business practice is some flower buying consumer is being hurt or inconvenienced by you not accepting these orders. Right or wrong, OG's are here.

Also, discrimination is not necessarily a bad trait, for example one's exquisite and discriminating taste in clothing or food defines the character of a person.

I meant no malice to you, your husband, your business, or your family.

Sincerely.....

Joe
 
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