Florists For Change

[theRKF]

I have also inquired as to whether I would be allowed to attend. The combination of being a 5th generation florist AND FlowerChat Admin AND vendor (Strider & Florist 2.0) would make this a decision requiring some consideration on their part, and I certainly don't want to step on any toes.

If I get a green light to attend, and if the airfare is reasonable, I will happily report back as much as I am able. Additionally, we're happy to promote the event as much as possible to our florist members.

Whatever the agendas or outcome of this particular meeting, I can't see a downside to a bunch of florists meeting together to discuss industry issues.

 

[lori042499]

What are the consequences to the ws if they don't change?

That is the million dollar question right there. What is the leverage this group would have that could force the change so far I have not heard or seen any such leverage. I have sent an email and asked for a copy of the agenda so i can determine rather I should try to go to this meeting.[/QUOTE]


This is my biggest concern also...I gave up the wire services so this doesn't affect me per se right now...but how many times has there been a decision made to keep the membership growing that down the road was really to the detriment of the little guy...the ws really don't need to play this game if there is no or else scenario...Are all these big sending shop willing and able to leave the ws if they don't want to play...if they are not going to leave there is no leverage, it looks to me like there may have been a whole lot of talking between these people, but they went up and online without a real plan for a months time away, doesn't sound to me like anyone of them can just pull the plug on their ws, it would cost them hundreds of dollars in labor to be without the easy transfer of their sending orders, their staffs are not trained on a new platform, I don't see that on Aug 18th if noone wants to play this game, all of those florists walking off the ws program to spite their own businesses...if there was a real organized effort behind all of this there would already be an organized website and fb page, but they are still in the process of getting it built and live...I am watching still, and waiting..I will not be going to Las Vegas, not worth leaving my shop for, I am not the kind of player that matters to the organization or the ws, other than I have a big mouth and when I like and don't like something i will tell everyone and anyone the facts of that, which I guess intimidates even some of the biggest companies...

 

[jamie]

The biggest questions that should be asked is:

who is wanting the changes to be made? Large shops who have a substantial amount of outgoing orders via house accounts that send flowers nationwide (they need quality filling shops)

Who NEEDS a wire service to survive? The wire services themselves, and the big nationwide OGs that have been destroying the reputation of florists for over a decade

Do YOU stand to benefit by wire services adapting and keeping a nationwide network of florists? I don't. I am interested in being the goto shop in my town. I am interested in buying quality flowers, making beautiful designs and selling them for a nice profit. I don't really care about driving business to other shops in other parts of the country. I will personally be glad when it is not an expectation to get flowers anywhere in the country at a moments notice.

If a shop survives by filling incoming wire orders then they have problems. It is not anyone else's responsibility to help them hang on. I would rather have the industry be "saved" organically by the best shops in the country becoming better and taking more of the market. Raise the value of flowers by allowing the dead weight to wilt away.

 

[steve]

( I will personally be glad when it is not an expectation to get flowers anywhere in the country at a moments notice.

Are you serious you really think that expectation is going to go away? Being able to do that and give same day delivery is one of the florist strengths!

 

[anytimeflowers]

Although I am independent (no wire service), am my community florist, and market myself constantly, I want to put forth one thought to anybody who thinks this does not matter to them if they have the same business model as I do. Here is the problem. As more shops fold, the distribution gets tighter. As distribution gets tighter, or wholesalers close their doors, growers fold bringing the cost of product up. The truth is that as an industry, we are inter-dependent.

For the shops that have successfully marketed themselves to a local customer base, we would still have a problem of sourcing our product and would most assuredly pay a higher price. The only good thing that usually comes after grower closures is some big boxes (Sam's Club for one in my area) do a lot less competing for fresh cut dollars.

For this reason, I am still throwing support at this effort. Somebody said that any time a group of florists can actually meet up has to be a good thing. I agree. I do think they are doing the right thing by limiting it. For such a short period of time, the meeting needs to stay on focus for what the agenda is supposed to be.

Like Boss, I won't throw my full support at them unless I see them addressing all of the issues that are causing the problems in the industry from deceptive order gatherers to photo-shopped images to non-qualified filling members. These ALL need to be addressed.

 

[keith]

if there was a real organized effort behind all of this there would already be an organized website and fb page, but they are still in the process of getting it built and live...I am watching still, and waiting..I will not be going to Las Vegas, not worth leaving my shop for,

Honestly??? How can you say this? we all have shops that we run and work at full time. Please do not think that because you are not a wire service member that this is not going to impact you, this is about creating a new way of looking at the retail floral industry, not just wire orders. This is all about the little guy, and the medium guy, and the big guy.

We have plenty of naysayers, its OK to be one, we will welcome you anytime.

Keith

 

[jamie]

I think that consumers will wise up and realizethat our "network of quality florists" is a farce and the best thing to do is contact a local florist directly

Same day gift giving is our best marketing strength.

 

[RWK]

Let me toss a few comments into the mix...correct a few fallacies.....and generally share some information and opinion. First of all, regarding flowers by wire, The service began not with FTD, but with an earlier version of FTD......that was affliated at that time with SAF. SAF was just newly separated from what was then The Association of Nurserymen, Growers, and Florists. FTD began in August 1910....at an afternoon meeting held during the SAF conference that year. So, the concept of sending flowers from what part of the country to another has been in place a very LONG time. long enough to be ingrained in the american psyche. To add to the mix......international sending and recieving was showcased at an early ( Mid 1920's) Chelsea Flower Show, where London florist Edwin Goodyear showed the King and Queen How to wire flowers to the Prince of Wales ensconced at his home in Canada.

My point of the above is that the idea and concept is so well a part of history and a part of our business in the minds of america that I don't believe we can ever NOT offer that service. Whether we use a wire service or do it ourselves is a moot point. That is a part of our business, has been so, and it is still one of our strengths. One early advertising campaign that really spoke volumes about sending was with FTD. The point being.....ORDERED THIS AFTERNOON, DELIVERED THIS MORNING. The arrangement ordered in New York just after 12 noon.....recieved, filled, and delivered before 12 noon in California.

Flowers by wire began, NOT WITH THE TELEPHONE, by with the Telegraph. How many of you knew that ? How many of you know that the use of a wire service pre-dates the Electric Refridgerator?

Whatever industry saving ideas this new group comes up with.......the fact of the matter is this. There will always be the GIFT giving mindset.....and what better gift than flowers......sent this morning from Sonnyboy in New York.....to his Mama in California.

To add/edit....Those who feel that the idea itself is lame and think that the idea of sending out of town, out of state, same day, and the hassle that goes with it......Is in essence denying that same young man........who might be working in New York to make a better life for his Mama.....and his just wants her to have something special. Isn't he worth the effort if he comes into your shop.....and wants to spend money with you?

You can better believe this.....IF YOU DON'T TAKE CARE OF HIM.....ANOTHER FLORIST, A WIRE SERVVICE, A D'OG WILL TRY TO STEP IN YOUR PLACE. Speaking for myself, I will do everything in my power to make sure that person spends his money with me and that I bend over backwards, jump through hoops, and do everything I can to make sure that he is so well satisified that he comes back to spend more !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Flowermomma]

I will watch from here but can't afford a trip like that.
But i will watch for updates!!!

 

[KABERS]

Thats exactly what we all try to do Ricky but not without making a profit or even worse at a loss!

 

[secretgarden]

My point of the above is that the idea and concept is so well a part of history and a part of our business in the minds of america that I don't believe we can ever NOT offer that service.

I agree that this is a service that is still being used. I have not been around the industry that long but I can honestly say that the people that ask for this service, in my area, are not in their 30's or 40's they are older and do not trust computers. They do not want to put their credit card number "out there" for everyone to see. So they come to the flower shop and have us do it. That is fine I will gladly help them, as will the others on this board. But what we are not taking in to account is that this service will not be needed in mass like it was 10 or 20 years ago. We were seeing a decline in wire outs long before we stopped using TF and started calling direct.

Ask yourself this, when was the last time you took shoes to a shoe repair man? In my lifetime I can say, none. It is cheaper to buy new ones then repair the old ones. My point to this is: Not ever service will last forever. I can see the end of wire companies in my lifetime, I bet when my kids take over the shop (Lord please let this one happen lol) they will be bitter memories I share with them.

 

[concord]

I'm a bit surprised at the negativity, (well sort of.) I don't believe this group ever claimed to be about solving the problems in our industry in one August meeting. I get the feeling it's an information gathering event where they are looking for the thoughts, ideas, suggestions and comments of those of us in the trenches, regardless of our size. Of course it's harder for small shops to attend a meeting far a way because of finances and lack of employee coverage so it's likely that the big shops will be better represented. But, honestly, we complain and complain and then when people try to do something, we complain about that! Yikes! No wonder the industry is in the state it is in. I dropped wire because it was right for me and my business goals. I still believe what happens in the wire service world does affect my business. Get rid of the OG's and my small shop has a better shot at getting 100% direct from consumer orders to fill. I like that! And for shops still in the WS, who feel like they can't get out because of their web sites and POS, change is also needed. So if a group is willing to start exploring options why be critical? Because they haven't already decided what the solution is and how they will get the wire services to respond? You know if they calimed to have all the answers 50 % of us wouldn't like their answers. Let's try to be open minded enough to see where this can go and brave enough to follow if we like where it's headed.

 

[Flowermomma]

I agree that this is a service that is still being used. I have not been around the industry that long but I can honestly say that the people that ask for this service, in my area, are not in their 30's or 40's they are older and do not trust computers. They do not want to put their credit card number "out there" for everyone to see. So they come to the flower shop and have us do it. That is fine I will gladly help them, as will the others on this board. But what we are not taking in to account is that this service will not be needed in mass like it was 10 or 20 years ago. We were seeing a decline in wire outs long before we stopped using TF and started calling direct.

Ask yourself this, when was the last time you took shoes to a shoe repair man? In my lifetime I can say, none. It is cheaper to buy new ones then repair the old ones. My point to this is: Not ever service will last forever. I can see the end of wire companies in my lifetime, I bet when my kids take over the shop (Lord please let this one happen lol) they will be bitter memories I share with them.

oh i have I have! I have had my fav shoes re heeled!!!

 

[lori042499]

Honestly??? How can you say this? we all have shops that we run and work at full time. Please do not think that because you are not a wire service member that this is not going to impact you, this is about creating a new way of looking at the retail floral industry, not just wire orders. This is all about the little guy, and the medium guy, and the big guy.

We have plenty of naysayers, its OK to be one, we will welcome you anytime.

Keith

Keith, just being cautious of what band wagon to jump on..You really can't blame a person can you with all of the organizations in the past that wanted to "help" the florists..I have said all along that I hope this is the winning organization, I understand that every organization needs an idea and a beginning, but I just don't see how you will be ready by the 17th of August if you do plan on talking to TF exec board...If you guys are more organized than it seems I apologize, just looks like it was a spur of the moment the time is now effort, there is nothing wrong with that, but in my experience situations like this have a whole lot of momentum in the beginning but fizzle out very fast because everyone jumped before they were really ready....I am a skeptic but you can blame all the ws and history for that..I really do wish you all the best for a successful group to make history and plan on giving my all along the lines of info and ideas...so please do not take my skepticism to heart, I just don't want to get too excited to be let down yet again...I am on the founding group for our state association and have seen first hand what great momentum a group can have and how fast it can fizzle, I am sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I am sure I am not the only person who feels this way, alot of burnt out battered small shops do about anyone wanting to "save" or "help" us or our industry..

 

[sandytf]

Keith, just being cautious of what band wagon to jump on..You really can't blame a person can you with all of the organizations in the past that wanted to "help" the florists..I have said all along that I hope this is the winning organization, I understand that every organization needs an idea and a beginning, but I just don't see how you will be ready by the 17th of August if you do plan on talking to TF exec board...If you guys are more organized than it seems I apologize, just looks like it was a spur of the moment the time is now effort, there is nothing wrong with that, but in my experience situations like this have a whole lot of momentum in the beginning but fizzle out very fast because everyone jumped before they were really ready....I am a skeptic but you can blame all the ws and history for that..I really do wish you all the best for a successful group to make history and plan on giving my all along the lines of info and ideas...so please do not take my skepticism to heart, I just don't want to get too excited to be let down yet again...I am on the founding group for our state association and have seen first hand what great momentum a group can have and how fast it can fizzle, I am sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I am sure I am not the only person who feels this way, alot of burnt out battered small shops do about anyone wanting to "save" or "help" us or our industry..

Have to laugh a little Lori, when I read your other-let's call it-more "negative" post, I thought to myself, "Lori, you don't really mean that"! Funny how we get to know each other so much through our words here. I understand the skepticism, but we gotta have hope! Big things start small and we should be open minded. Positive things come from positive thinking. I, too, am waiting to see what happens, but in the meantime am supporting any effort that actually takes action!!

 

[lori042499]

Have to laugh a little Lori, when I read your other-let's call it-more "negative" post, I thought to myself, "Lori, you don't really mean that"! Funny how we get to know each other so much through our words here. I understand the skepticism, but we gotta have hope! Big things start small and we should be open minded. Positive things come from positive thinking. I, too, am waiting to see what happens, but in the meantime am supporting any effort that actually takes action!!

Yeah, Sandy I might have been a little hairy yesterday..Was my first day ack at the shop and it was a trying day to say the least....my post did not come across that way it should have...I am supportive of anybody who tries to change the industry for the better, history just tells me to be cautious and wonder what everyone's angle is so as to not get fooled by the greed that does live in our industry in both the florists world and the WS world, they lurk everywhere and don't seem to care who the chew up and spit out along the way...not saying this particular group is doing that, just cannot ignore some of the names rumored to be getting involved as such greedy florists who use everyone's business and accomplishments as their own to grow their business and profits....

 

[BOSS]

Good post Professor... LOL

Flowers by wire began, NOT WITH THE TELEPHONE, by with the Telegraph. How many of you knew that ?

Yep, I did, still have the Western Union Telegram from Winston Churchill, ordering flowers when the Willard Dow family died in a plane crash....

 

[jamie]

"To add/edit....Those who feel that the idea itself is lame and think that the idea of sending out of town, out of state, same day, and the hassle that goes with it......Is in essence denying that same young man........who might be working in New York to make a better life for his Mama.....and his just wants her to have something special. Isn't he worth the effort if he comes into your shop.....and wants to spend money with you?

You can better believe this.....IF YOU DON'T TAKE CARE OF HIM.....ANOTHER FLORIST, A WIRE SERVVICE, A D'OG WILL TRY TO STEP IN YOUR PLACE. Speaking for myself, I will do everything in my power to make sure that person spends his money with me and that I bend over backwards, jump through hoops, and do everything I can to make sure that he is so well satisified that he comes back to spend more !!!!!!!!!!!!!" --RWK

Read more: Florists For Change - Page 5
Where professional florists grow FC Professional Florist Community

I believe if you can't do something well, with profit, then you should not be selling that service. You can't send flowers nationwide and give your guarantee that they will be taken care of. There is too much corruption in the current network. Changing the fee structure is not going to change attitudes immediately. It will take time for people to forget how badly they have been treated, and start to do honest work again.

I get customers asking me for services that I don't provide all the time. Some people want edible arrangements, sorry we don't do that. Balloon arches, nope. Can you deliver wine? not in Tennessee. Will you paint some carnations? nein Can you send flowers to San Antonio? No, but I can recommend a florist there for you. Let me get their number, and if you ever need anything sent around town, please give me a call.

The people who are organizing this event are concerned with finding quality shops to FILL their orders. Some of them are interested in making a profit at it, some of them just want to continue to be able to offer the service. I know that Wesley Berry florist has no problem with the current fee structure, but my guess is they have been having more trouble lately getting quality product delivered in some areas.

I swear I am not trying to be negative, but any attempts to salvage the wire service industry is going to hurt my business. The shops who "specialize" in nationwide delivery will find a way to continue to fleece our customers. You see, they know that customers don't really have a problem with the fees. Customers complain about fees like I complain about the line at the grocery store. However, there is a real problem is when the overpriced product is not up to expectations or not delivered at all.

 

[keith]

Uhm, Jamie, Weasly Berry is not invited or a considered by most even large shops to be good for this industry. I do not fill his or any other order gatherer orders. They are the problem.

And yes one main goal of this is to enable small shops to continue in business so they can fill incoming orders, but we realize that the current system is not financially viable for anyone who's goal is good customer service.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for profit, but the current system does not allow the filling shops that ability. We wish to explore ways to change that.

You can ask any of the 4 current organizers, myself, Dirk Lorenz, Betsy Hall, or Mike Fianacca, there is no expected financial return on this effort. we are truly trying to better this industry.

Keith

 

[BOSS]

One of the "editorials" I am working on for the group (sadly it won't fit on the FB page, hopefully it can be added to thier website when it launches) that I feel is key to their gaining support.
_____________________________

As was outlined on the information page for this effort, declining outgoing volume was one of the original topics. Personally I feel that one of the most glaring issues facing both large and small florists alike is order gathering. Those of you that know me, know I have been saying for the last 3-4 years that this one thing will be the downfall of many stores, as well as the integrity of the industry as a whole.

How much damage to "our integrity" did the 100,000 unfilled FTD orders at Valentines cost the industry?

This issue among many others will have to be addressed by this group, if you hope to gain and maintain the support of many smaller to medium sized shops, especially those that have left the wire services (like myself) in the last 1-2 years. Changing the fee structure and TAXES is important as well to make filling profitable, however continuing to allow NON-florists like Just Flowers, BloomsToday, America Blooms, Laurens and any of the many other Pure Play Order Gatherers, including FTD.com and the like to continue to deceive consumers, and remove 30% of every order from the industry while giving nothing back is insane.

Likewise, allowing the national marketing by the likes of Charles Kremp and Wesley Berry and others to continue, where they say "We deliver to..." with a web page for every zip code in the US, and allowing them to make more on a order than the filling florist does is also insane. I assume there will be some push back on this item, after all they are "florists" too... while that is true, they are also deceptive marketers, taking orders from your customers and mine, and sending them back to you with the profit removed.

And you wonder where the outgoing volume went?

Part of it is a natural decline as consumers evolve into internet customers, they need to be educated how to find a LOCAL REAL FLORIST, and it's our job to do that, but more so, it's marketing in the Yellow Pages and online, by non-florists and florists alike, that are not in the customer/recipient city that are steeling the volume. Unless this is not dealt with, support for this effort by small shops will be hard to come by.

Changing the percentages IS important, harnessing the middleman is more so, and removing the deception is paramount.